T Nation

HPTA Restart After TRT


#1

Before I get into details, I want to give a brief synopsis of what this thread is about. This captures my experience with cycles, TRT and now road to restart my HPTA and be “normal” enough to have children.

Age: 30
Height/Weight: 6’ 195-lbs
Training: 8 years

1st Cycle (at age of 26): Test E (12 weeks)
2nd Cycle (at age 27): Test E, EQ (12 weeks)
3rd Cycle (at age 28): Test E (12 weeks), Tren A (8 weeks…started 4 weeks after test)
TRT: Started a dose of 100mg a week of Test E, right after 3rd cycle.
(All cycles included adex, along with a proper pct right afterwards, with the exception of no pct while on trt obviously)

Looking back, would I do this over? No. At that time, my thinking did not involve future planning of children or overall sexual health. Not to mention the other problems that can arise from long term usage, even on a trt dosage and monitoring bloodwork.

Reasons for wanting to come off? Getting married and wanting children. Luckily early on in dating my wife, I told her my “situation” at the age of 28. I let her know about trt and what potential future impacts it could have. Come 1.5 years later we are married. Now the road to recovery starts. The following contains information from Oct 2016 to present day. We do not have protected sex during this time, and see what the chances of conception are.

October 2016, bloodwork while on trt (100mg a week):
Test Total: 1003 ng/dl (range: 250-1100)
Test Free: 198 pg/ml (range: 35-155)
SHBG: 32 nmol/L (range: 10-50)
Estradiol: 32 pg/ml (range: less than 39)
Prolocatin: 9.0 ng/ml (range: 2-18)
FSH: .7 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: .2 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)

All other tests were in range and good. The problem was my FSH and LH. I was not on hcg and there was testicular shrinkage. How much on 100mg a week? Enough to have me completely shut down for LH and FSH.

From end of October to Early December I started to reduce my test dose by 10mg a week. Here are the results of bloodwork for December 15th:

Bloodwork December 15th:
FSH: .8 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: .5 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)
No real change in values and still below where I should be. The low LH shows no natural test production and the low FSH indicates no sperm production

December 15th and forward: I completely cut off weekly test dosage. This is where I attempted HPTA restart using following protocol:

December 15th to December 25th (Days 1-11): HCG 1000iu every other day + HMG 75 every other day
December 26th to January 5th: Clomid @ 50mg daily, Nolva 20mg daily (+ tribulus + longjack)

Bloodwork January 5th:
FSH: 10.0 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: 8.2 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)
**Looks like both my values have increase to normal/above normal limits at this point. Still, this is a much longer road than it appears.

January 6th to January 24th: Clomid @ 50mg daily, Nolva 20mg daily (+ tribulus + longjack + alphamale)
(Did notice a bit of hard time to ejaculate. No problems getting hard, just took much longer to ejaculate. Testicle size increased quite a bit)

Bloodwork January 24th:
FSH: 17.7 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: 22.1 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)
Test Total: 385 ng/dl (range: 250-1100)
Test Free: 48.1 pg/ml (range: 35-155)
**Test seems fine, however FSH and LH are too high. I had noticed for about 10 days in a row, I was getting night sweats quite a bit. These high levels could have been the cause. Also noticed a slight decrease in testicle size. At this point I cut dosage of clomid and nolva.

January 25th to February 9th Clomid @ 20mg daily, Nolva 10mg daily (using liquids so this is approximate) (+ alphamale + horny goat weed)

Bloodwork February 9th:
FSH: 14.7 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: 15.6 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)
**Numbers have dropped. Continued cutting down dosage. Testicle size increased. Amount of semen ejaculated has also increased.

February 10th to present day: Clomid 10mg daily, Nolva 5mg daily (+ alphamale + horny goat weed)

Bloodwork February 21st:
FSH: 10.0 mIU/ml (range: 1.6-8)
LH: 10.3 mIU/ml (range: 1.5-9.3)
**Very close to within range, a bit high. Last few weeks of sex has felt very good in terms of staying erect and being able to ejaculate.
Now, I am at a point where I am looking for guidance. It has been 68 days since I am completely off Test. I am still at the low dosage of Clomid and Nolva. Any help with questions below would be appreciated. Or if you have any questions and/or comments, please post.

Understand that I am coming out with this information to provide insight on this topic to others as well as gain knowledge. I understand my mistakes and hope to steer others away from similar choices…or at least make more guided choices. It’s not easy to share your personal story and bashing what one has wrote will only deter them from doing so. Whereas constructive criticism would do much better than putting someone down.

-Is it correct to assume I have started the process of Spermatogenesis? Obviously it would be hard to judge when that production of sperm started but I am curious on others thoughts. I understand from research that the process for a mature sperm takes 65-80 days somewhere.
**Note: I am having a semen analysis performed February 23rd, with results available on the 27th. I will post once I know more.

-Should I take the chance of coming off Clomid and Nolva completely? Or perhaps is it best to stay on a few weeks longer, keep monitoring bloodwork and see if sperm production has increased?

-Thanks for any help and support.


#2

As you’ve noted, it takes 2-3 months to notice any real change in the quality/quantity of your actual sperm. I have a similar thread here, I’m currently trying a restart. FWIW, my semen analysis was always “good” with excellent count and motility. However, I was only able to get the wife pregnant once in the previous 3 years. My thinking was that I was making lots of sperm, but they weren’t “good” as I was missing the FSH component that hcg wasn’t providing (I was on t + hcg for years, essentially the entire time I was on TRT with the exception of a month or two).
At this point you’ve basically done a prolonged PCT/restart…see what your semen analysis says. Then evaluate whether or not you can come of the SERMS. KSMan or other more knowledgeable guys may have a better answer.


#3

LH and FSH are going to be near zero when on gear or TRT, stupid to be testing.

Now you have LH/FSH very high which is stupid and E2 probably very high and that creates major problems. SERM doses too high and stacking SERMs is wrong as well.

More is less. Forget what you learned in body building and steroid forums.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc
  • HPTA restart

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.