Hi,i am new to T Nation,i am 21 year male and have some low testosterone problems some days before an endocrinologist prescribed me testosterone caps(TU) for 3 months but i havent started that yet as i am a bit afraid of it because of its negative impacts on hpta more precisly hpta suppression.
so i joined this forum to get some advice, i want to know about hpta natural recovery after trt and also as trt also suppress furtility so would that also recover after stopping trt, does suppresson depend upon dosage and timeperiod also what other factors increase the chance of suppression.
Many things to be understood. First, your low T is a symptom and you need to first look for the cause. YOU MUST CHECK LH/FSH BEFORE STARTING TRT.
Please read the advice for new guys sticky to start your learning curve. Consider the things that might be a cause. Post your labs with ranges and post more info about you.
There is no natural recovery after TRT because at that point one is meant to have determined that that is not possible. However, with idiot doctors …
What is “testosterone caps(TU)”
Where are you located? - this affects treatment options
thanks for reply, by natural recovery from hpta suppression i meant recover on its own without any medicine use.And by TU(testosterone undecanoate)is what i meant.
I was prescribed of testosterone undecanoate 40mg capsules, 4 capsules daily.Along with that is there any guy on the forum who have experience with these caps or this kind of treatment then please share your experience.Also i will soon put blood works too.But most of all i am worried about hpta recovery.
I’ve only been a member of this forum for a little under a year and I don’t think I’ve seen one TU user. Really, really poor levels TT are achieved with this method of administration. Orally, the liver will process the drug and deactivate much of it before any becomes available to the entire system. For this reason B vitamins are a good idea and may prevent adverse effects.
Like KSman said, tests and causes should be investigated before T replacement. The Merck drug monograph for Andriol states the very same thing.
It sounds like your worried about messing up your healthy HPTA system. If it’s healthy, don’t take exogenous T. Taking T for a messed up HPTA makes much more sense. If your HPTA isn’t functioning optimally now, what makes you think it could recover after it’s been shut down completely? The question is, does “normal” TT levels alter the HPTA permanently or temporarily whereas it seems to be well known that supra physiologic levels can cause permanent changes.
[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:
I’ve only been a member of this forum for a little under a year and I don’t think I’ve seen one TU user. Really, really poor levels TT are achieved with this method of administration. Orally, the liver will process the drug and deactivate much of it before any becomes available to the entire system. For this reason B vitamins are a good idea and may prevent adverse effects.
Like KSman said, tests and causes should be investigated before T replacement. The Merck drug monograph for Andriol states the very same thing.
It sounds like your worried about messing up your healthy HPTA system. If it’s healthy, don’t take exogenous T. Taking T for a messed up HPTA makes much more sense. If your HPTA isn’t functioning optimally now, what makes you think it could recover after it’s been shut down completely? The question is, does “normal” TT levels alter the HPTA permanently or temporarily whereas it seems to be well known that supra physiologic levels can cause permanent changes. [/quote]
Yes, you are right about TT levels achieved through TU orall administration but i’ve not been prescribed these for muscles but for a therapy as medicine so it makes sense that these wont effect hpta that much as no supra levels will be attained(as far as i think)but cant say for sure as hpta is also effected due to other causes done by exogenous T.
And as for liver toxity you said then i have read this on many places that the ester used in these caps prevent it from passing through liver and very small amount passes from liver.
And does exogenous T always shutdown hpta permanently isnt there any temporary shutdown i am talking about a short therapy with no supra levels would that cause permanent shutdown.Also with my low T levels my lh and fsh are also low(according to my judgment)and may be endo’s judgment too.here are my bloodwroks:
total testosterone: 306 ng/dl ref range 249-836 ng/dl
free testosterone: 6.69 pg/ml ref range 3.84-34.17 pg/ml
Estradiol E2:4.69 pg/ml ref range 7.55-39.05 pg/ml
fsh: 2.86 mIU/ml ref range 1.4-15.4 mIU/ml
lh: 2.30mIU/ml ref range 1.2-7.8 mIU/ml
TSH: 2.74 uU/ml ref range 0.5-7.0 uU/ml
prolactin:9.49 ng/ml ref range 3.0-14.7 ng/ml
DHEAS:196.4 ug/dl ref range 80.0-560.0 ug/dl
DHT:189.48 ug/dl ref range 80.0-560.0 ug/dl
SHBG:29.47 nmol/l ref range 18.0-114.0 nmol/l
Dont you think my lh and fsh are low.please have a deep view on my whole post and bloodwork before replying.thanks
I was referring to the use for hormone replacement, not bodybuilding. The levels of testosterone achieved in the test subjects had no better levels than you have now. It may take some time to shut your system down but inevitably it is likely to.
You should first try a SERM restart. Search for that in this forum and read read read.
TSH is high, read the thyroid basics sticky and eval body temps and long term iodine intake.
DHEA-S is low for your age. Do lab for “AM cortisol” and get that done at 8AM. You could take 25mg DHEA.
Do you have high stress levels or react poorly to high stress events? See those key words in the advice for new guys sticky.
Also test TSH, fT3, fT4.
If you are highly stressed also check rT3 or do that later if fT3, fT4 are optimal and body temperatures are low.
Infact i haven’t used capsules yet so these are my own levels not medicine based so no shutdown yet.But C27 H40 O3 as in your previous post you have said about lh,fsh so dont you think my lh and fsh are also a bit low.And KSman you said about dhea and thyroid do you think problems with these can lower my hormones level this low and can fixing these can really increase testosterone levls pretty high.
As you can see my e2 levels too low but i dont know whats going on as i have alot of bloating in belly,chest pains,burning and itching in nipples also nipples feels like puffy and chest somewhat swallen(may be prolactin)what do you say about my prolactin levels i was also thinking of redoing an e2 test from a separate lab.what would you say on these.please reply a bit early as i have soon an appointment with a doc so i want to clear these things before appointment so that i can discuss with him better.thanks
A SERM will help identify why the LH and FSH are low. The causes are many including low thyroid hormone. Even stress hormones will inhibit release. Prolactin is inhibitory also so a follow-up is a good idea to determine if it’s a trend or a one time result.
If any SERM restarts have been a success I haven’t heard of any. It seems to me that it would only be effective if it can block inhibition and result in higher LH/FSH without adverse effects. Even if it did make everything function better for a few months, what’s the point if it goes back to the way it is or worse? One reason is for diagnosing primary vs secondary HG and to identify a possible adjunct to Testosterone.
E2 is low because the testosterone is probably low and results in low aromatization.
You guys in the US are lucky to have the option of including DHEA. Unfortunately without any chance of a patent, no pharmaceutical company will do the research needed by Health Canada to make it available. So, it’ll never happen.
In serm treatment mostly clomid is used so what are the doses/schedule for clomid and how long would be treatment period.
what if i take dhea what are your thoughts and experience would it increase t more then e or what?
And looking at my prolactin levels what would you say should i also try to lower that.
There is one confusion in my mind that as hypothalamus finds low e2 in body it increase peptides that increase testosterone and so e2 and rebalance i also have low e2 why didn’t same happened.
Lets forget about serms for a while,what do you say about dhea should i give it a try.what are its side effects and will it worth increasing testosterone.
Also you haven’t mentioned anything about prolactin should i lower prolactin.And KSman what are your openions on these.
[quote]KSman wrote:
You should first try a SERM restart. Search for that in this forum and read read read.
TSH is high, read the thyroid basics sticky and eval body temps and long term iodine intake.
DHEA-S is low for your age. Do lab for “AM cortisol” and get that done at 8AM. You could take 25mg DHEA.
Do you have high stress levels or react poorly to high stress events? See those key words in the advice for new guys sticky.
Also test TSH, fT3, fT4.
If you are highly stressed also check rT3 or do that later if fT3, fT4 are optimal and body temperatures are low.[/quote]
KSman what would you recommend for ppl who have normal thyroid labs, but high rT3 and low body temps? Start on iodoral?
Cholesterol is the backbone molecule that create sex hormones. DHEA is just several steps closer to Testosterone and Estrogen. Since you don’t have an organ to make estrogen directly it will be used by the testes to convert to testosterone. Low levels of DHEA means low levels of T.
Sides are potentially the same as with many hormone treatments. I have no personal experience with it so can’t comment on its efficacy or doses. KSman says 25mg, take 25mg.
KSman what would you recommend for ppl who have normal thyroid labs, but high rT3 and low body temps? Start on iodoral?
[/quote]
A new thread would be a good idea. rT3 is created when the body is under stress, either physical or psychological. It can be inflammation, stress, depression, infection, medications, etc. The solution is to identify the cause and lower rT3 to a 10:1 ratio of fT3:rT3. RT3 competes with T3 and results in lower body temps.