T Nation

Hows this Workout and What Sets/Reps

Ok people I have a few goals get a bit bigger lose the beer belly and get stronger for fighting(self defense)

I have got a home gym what has a powerrack bench and barbell,I do my bagwork at a local gym(not a boxing gym they just had heavy bags there)

been trainig since about sep lost bit of fat about 7lbs (hard to tell because Ive put some muscle on)

stats
21 5’8 169.4 pounds/76.8 kg 20%bf
been doing 5 x 5 these are my last 5 reps
deadlift 110kg
squat 70 kg
bench 60kg
mill press 40kg

How does this workout plan look

MONDAY
am
clean and press
Benchpress
closegrip benchpress
mill press

pm
core and neck work
situps
leg raises
planks
weighted situps
neck bride front and back

burpess 2x2mins
shadow boxing 3 x 3mins (for technique not cardio)

TUESDAY
10 min ski machien warmup
punchbag 3x6 rounds

bw exercises
pullups
dips
pushups
squats

curls(I do these in the gym because I dont like doing them with a barbell)

WEDNESDAY
AM
thrusters (squat and press)
squats
lunges*

pm
core done in a circuit
situps
leg raises
knee to elbows

THURSDAY
10 min ski machien warmup
punchbag 3x6 rounds

bw done as a circuit
pushups
squats
dips
pullups
burpess

FRIDAY
deadlift
bentover row
stiff deads
clean and press

pm
core and neck work
situps
leg raises
planks
weighted situps
neck bride front and back

sat and sunday rest and do long streches hold each muscle for about 15 seconds x 4

*Ive had problems with some of my form for bench and squats thats why the weight is low

  • am only just starting to do thruster clean and press stiff deads and lunges

*each week I will swap the clean and press around with the thrusters

  • what sets and reps ? am looking on swaping from 5x5 to 5 sets of 10 for a few weeks to improve form and build muscle then swap to 15 sets x 3 for Strength Endurance

Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.[/quote]

No.

Hypertrophy and strength go hand in hand for beginners. Fat loss, no so much with the other two but it’s possible for a few months. Training for strength is not the same as a goal being “powerlifting”

You overall message is fine though. Just clearing something up

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.[/quote]

No.

Hypertrophy and strength go hand in hand for beginners. Fat loss, no so much with the other two but it’s possible for a few months. Training for strength is not the same as a goal being “powerlifting”

You overall message is fine though. Just clearing something up [/quote]

As I beginner I’m always intrigued by these three goals and how it is considered ‘better’ to focus on one at a time (as a more experienced lifter). I’m going to ask a really stupid question BONEZ, but how does hypertrophy not equal strength for more advanced lifters? Can greater strength be achieved without an increase in muscle size?

I know you asked BONEZ but…There are 2 types of hypertrophy: Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Myofibrillar hypertrophy is associated with increases in strength while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy increases the volume of the surrounding tissues. There is carry-over between the two, because myofibrillar hypertrophy is still hypertrophy/getting bigger. A simple google imagesearch should be enough to explain the difference physically. Additionally, even without any muscle growth at all, there can be improvement in technique as well as mental activation/nerve recruitment which can land you bigger poundages; go max out with ammonia smelling salts, caffeine buzz, blasting metal, Pavel’s tensing principles, powerlifting cues, and you’ll notice a difference in weight.

BONEZ is right, generally strength results in hypertrophy. I recommended going after strength because you’ll see better results increasing your dips 100 pounds instead of doing tricep extensions with 30lbs. for reps.

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
I know you asked BONEZ but…There are 2 types of hypertrophy: Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Myofibrillar hypertrophy is associated with increases in strength while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy increases the volume of the surrounding tissues. There is carry-over between the two, because myofibrillar hypertrophy is still hypertrophy/getting bigger. A simple google imagesearch should be enough to explain the difference physically. Additionally, even without any muscle growth at all, there can be improvement in technique as well as mental activation/nerve recruitment which can land you bigger poundages; go max out with ammonia smelling salts, caffeine buzz, blasting metal, Pavel’s tensing principles, powerlifting cues, and you’ll notice a difference in weight.

BONEZ is right, generally strength results in hypertrophy. I recommended going after strength because you’ll see better results increasing your dips 100 pounds instead of doing tricep extensions with 30lbs. for reps.[/quote]

Cheers mate.

I just want to say to the OP - I’m diggin your username!

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
I know you asked BONEZ but…There are 2 types of hypertrophy: Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Myofibrillar hypertrophy is associated with increases in strength while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy increases the volume of the surrounding tissues. There is carry-over between the two, because myofibrillar hypertrophy is still hypertrophy/getting bigger. A simple google imagesearch should be enough to explain the difference physically. Additionally, even without any muscle growth at all, there can be improvement in technique as well as mental activation/nerve recruitment which can land you bigger poundages; go max out with ammonia smelling salts, caffeine buzz, blasting metal, Pavel’s tensing principles, powerlifting cues, and you’ll notice a difference in weight.

[/quote]

Please, PLEASE stop spreading this bullshit myth. If you were to actually look into muscle physiology and the more recent studies that attempt (and fail) to produce “sarcoplasmic hypertrophy” independent of myofribril you would know that these are essentially two different parts of the same cell.

The size of the sarcopasm is always limited by the size of the myofibril, and they have never been able to isolate growth of the sarcoplasm without a corresponding growth in the myofibril.

There are no huge bloated sacks of sarcoplasm walking around that can’t bench 200lbs, except in DeFranco’s wet dreams.

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.[/quote]

Thats why at the end off the post I put am doing 5 x 10 for a while then swap the sets and reps up and try 15 x 2 to get some strength endurance http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wiggy1.htm

And shouldnt I be able to lose just the beer belly while gaining muscle?

From what I’ve read more muscle you have the more fat you burn(I think I read every lb of muscle will burn around 40cals).
Also am not looking on being ripped and am not looking on being huge just want the belly to be a bit flat and get a bit more wider and thicker.

Why is it a mess ?

All I’ve added into it thruster, clean and press ,stiff deads and lunges (these will help with explosive power and make sure am working more parts of the body"hamstring lower back") and the 2 bw days,other than that the workout is what ive been doing for a few months.

Ive herd its good to add bw exercises into your workout because it helps you get strong(gpp) and can also help in recovery,one of them days are done as a circuit which will help with fat loss and conditioning.
example of a workout
4 x 25 pushups
4x10 dips
3 x 5 pull/chinups
4x25 squats

or
20 burpess pushups
10 dips
10 stepups
5 towel pullups
20 burpess
rest 30sec
repeat 5 times

or squat-push-pullup for a set time

So what should I change so its not a MESS ?

Am thinking am working the shoulders a bit too much so maybe take out the clean and press on one of the days.

What sets and reps would you recommend? or what program would you suggest?

Summary of your training:
Monday
clean n press
push
core/neck

Tuesday
BW stuff + curls

Wednesday
legs (and press)
abs

thursday
bw stuff

friday
back
clean and press
core/neck

weekends rest/stretching

*each week I will swap the clean and press around with the thrusters

On Tuesdays and Thursdays you’re doing BW exercises for GPP and recovery purposes, apparently. I’ve never heard of it, and don’t know if it works. I wouldn’t do it, personally. If you’re going to rest your muscles, rest. After looking back on your program, it’s not nearly as messy as I thought it was. These bodyweight circuits and the overhead pressing is every workout just confused me.

Your program is neither a bodypart split nor a fullbody program. Full body programs 3 times a week will have greater frequency and will build up some basic strength. You’re benching, squatting, and deadlifting once a week. A fullbody program would allow you to do double or triple that frequency and improve form. A bodypart split can give greater attention to more muscles groups and generally allows higher volume per bodypart, but has lower frequency.

There are a number of articles on this website covering program design (and threads). Thibs has written these:


Well these talk about gpp and recovery http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/gpp_asap

Also I just like doing bw stuff.

So what about if I just take out the mill press and thrusters and keep in the clean and press on push day.

Also do you think am at a ok weight to bulk ?(am not doing the bodybuiding way of eating like 10k cals as I dont want to be no were neaer that big)

Bulk just means to gain muscle. Bulking may result in some fat gain, but the muscle growth will be more important. You really need to get your strength up.

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
I know you asked BONEZ but…There are 2 types of hypertrophy: Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Myofibrillar hypertrophy is associated with increases in strength while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy increases the volume of the surrounding tissues. There is carry-over between the two, because myofibrillar hypertrophy is still hypertrophy/getting bigger. A simple google imagesearch should be enough to explain the difference physically. Additionally, even without any muscle growth at all, there can be improvement in technique as well as mental activation/nerve recruitment which can land you bigger poundages; go max out with ammonia smelling salts, caffeine buzz, blasting metal, Pavel’s tensing principles, powerlifting cues, and you’ll notice a difference in weight.

BONEZ is right, generally strength results in hypertrophy. I recommended going after strength because you’ll see better results increasing your dips 100 pounds instead of doing tricep extensions with 30lbs. for reps.[/quote]

GTFO of here with this bullshit.

[quote]Mr Average wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.[/quote]

No.

Hypertrophy and strength go hand in hand for beginners. Fat loss, no so much with the other two but it’s possible for a few months. Training for strength is not the same as a goal being “powerlifting”

You overall message is fine though. Just clearing something up [/quote]

As I beginner I’m always intrigued by these three goals and how it is considered ‘better’ to focus on one at a time (as a more experienced lifter). I’m going to ask a really stupid question BONEZ, but how does hypertrophy not equal strength for more advanced lifters? Can greater strength be achieved without an increase in muscle size? [/quote]

What I mean is that as a lifter becomes more an more advanced he doesnt need to rely on massive strength increases to elicit muscle hypertrophy. A guy that gets his bench up to 405 for reps will have a good chest, assuming he does enough isolation work to overcome any imbalances. Its very likely that he wont need to ever get to a 600lb raw bench press to see very impressive growth in the upper body.

At some point a person needs to focus 100% on becoming as strong as possible or 100% on becoming as big as possible. That does not mean that people should not try to become big and strong. Just that if one wants to go to either extreme the other will have to take a backseat.

You completely twisted my post when you asked how “an increase in hypertrophy does not equal an increase in strength”. I never said anything close to that. I simply said that an advanced lifter doesnt need to rely on getting his bench press from 450 pounds to 550 pounds to make big gains the way a newb needs to get his bench from 150pounds to 300lbs to see gains. Those numbers are arbitrary and are in no way limits or recommendations.

Is that clearer?

OK then what program would work for a beginner to increase strength and explosive strength.

This is what Ive been doin for a while

mon
dumbell bench 5x5
incline bench 5x5
mill press 5x5
skullcrushers 3 x 10

bag work and ski machine

wed
deadlift 5x5
bent over rows 5 x5
pullups 3 x 5 or chin ups 3 x 10

fri
squats
curls

Also what %bf am I ?

THe specific number of your bodyfat % is irrelevant. A picture is always more telling than a number. So dont worry about that for now.

A lot of guys of all different experience levels are having fun with Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1. Just make sure to do the necessary accessory work so you dont neglect certain bodyparts. There are a few articles on this site about that program. I’ve never tried it btw. So take the advice fwiw

Well theres one thing Ive got my own weights, bench, barbell and powerrack but I havnt got dumbells so I need a workout what Just uses barbells.
Unless I can do the dumbell work on a diffrent day and do it when I go the gym for cardio.

TisDrew
When you say I realy need to get my strengh up what to exactly ? (obviously am always trying to lift more)

If youre serious about this you will go to the gym to workout if you dont have the equipment you need at home. It’s pretty simple.

Dont compromise a workout just so you can stay home. It should be the other way around. If a workout allows you to stay home, great, but dont half ass something because you dont want to go to the gym.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
If youre serious about this you will go to the gym to workout if you dont have the equipment you need at home. It’s pretty simple.

Dont compromise a workout just so you can stay home. It should be the other way around. If a workout allows you to stay home, great, but dont half ass something because you dont want to go to the gym. [/quote]

No I prefer training at home so I bought a proper set up an havent bought dumbells yet.(well I have normal dumbless but only oly weights)

I also had my punchbag outside but had to move it as we were getting a shed put there.

So now I go the gym to go on the punch bag.

Am also out of work so Id rather save my money by working out at home when I can than go the gym all the time.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Mr Average wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
Your goals: Hypertrophy, Fat Loss, AND Strength. Do you see the problem here? Focus on getting good at one instead of sucking at all of them. My advice to you right now is to get stronger. Find out how to do that. Your workout is kind of a mess, honestly. Go find a proven methodology for now. You should continue your cardio, curls, and high reps, but put them on the backburner and focus.[/quote]

No.

Hypertrophy and strength go hand in hand for beginners. Fat loss, no so much with the other two but it’s possible for a few months. Training for strength is not the same as a goal being “powerlifting”

You overall message is fine though. Just clearing something up [/quote]

As I beginner I’m always intrigued by these three goals and how it is considered ‘better’ to focus on one at a time (as a more experienced lifter). I’m going to ask a really stupid question BONEZ, but how does hypertrophy not equal strength for more advanced lifters? Can greater strength be achieved without an increase in muscle size? [/quote]

What I mean is that as a lifter becomes more an more advanced he doesnt need to rely on massive strength increases to elicit muscle hypertrophy. A guy that gets his bench up to 405 for reps will have a good chest, assuming he does enough isolation work to overcome any imbalances. Its very likely that he wont need to ever get to a 600lb raw bench press to see very impressive growth in the upper body.

At some point a person needs to focus 100% on becoming as strong as possible or 100% on becoming as big as possible. That does not mean that people should not try to become big and strong. Just that if one wants to go to either extreme the other will have to take a backseat.

You completely twisted my post when you asked how “an increase in hypertrophy does not equal an increase in strength”. I never said anything close to that. I simply said that an advanced lifter doesnt need to rely on getting his bench press from 450 pounds to 550 pounds to make big gains the way a newb needs to get his bench from 150pounds to 300lbs to see gains. Those numbers are arbitrary and are in no way limits or recommendations.

Is that clearer?
[/quote]

Thanks BONEZ, that makes a lot more sense.