T Nation

How's my Pre & Intra Nutrition/Supplementation?


#1

Greetings, all.

I was recently reading a few articles on supplements & nutrition here, and they were really interesting in regards to pre & intra nutrition. Now, I know they were also trying to sell Plazma and such, and the ideas behind the article and Plazma were sound. Now, I can't afford it, so I thought I'd cook up my own medley, and was curious if you guys thought it would fly or not.

I hit the gym an hour after I wake up. So, once I wake up I slam 24oz of Gatorade, the powered stuff which means I get the sweet Dextrose, along with 30g of Whey Isolate. 15 minutes before the workout I have another 12oz of Gatorade, and like 15g of Whey Isolate again. Then I take my 1g of Kre-Alkalyn Creatine.

During the workout I sip on two bottles. One containing 36oz of Gatorade with a scoop of BCAA that have a 4:1:1 profile. The other bottle has 60g of Whey Isolate. Once the workout is done I have another 1g of Kre-Alkalyn.

A half n hour after the workout, I take another 30g of Whey Isolate, and that's that.

So, what do you guys think? Any suggestions? I appreciate the help & advice.


#2

Welcome to the TNation forums!

Bottom line is that if your routine is working for you then stick with it. Personally I would source individual supplements to replace the Gatorade. This will also be cheaper over the long run.

In terms of carbs, the hierarchy would be cyclic dextrin, Palatinose, Vitargo, waxy maize, followed by maltodextrin and other simple sugars. For protein, a decent whey isolate works well, although hydrolysed versions are arguably superior but can be quite expensive. Using your BCAA is a good shout. I would consider using that as an alternative to whey rather than with it and perhaps rotating your workout drink depending on what you’re doing.

With that in mind, given your schedule, I would consider starting the day with simple water (up to 1 litre), as you’re currently spiking your insulin levels very early with the Gatorade. You could try taking caffeine and/or green tea extract with this for a pre-workout kick. You could then try ingesting around 40g CHO and 20g PRO (or 5-10g BCAA) in a workout drink 20 mins before you start to train, and going with something similar during the session.

IMO, you don’t need a huge amount of protein here. 20-40g PRO is fine. Carbs you can play around with depending on goals. Personally, I don’t think you need another post-workout dose but if it is more convenient than eating a solid meal then go for it.


#3

Thanks, James, I really appreciate the feedback.

Yeah, I thought the post-workout protein was a bit over-kill, but after years of hitting that anabolic window, it was a hard habit to break. I have my meal like an hour or so after the workout, and have a shake with that, so, yeah, the post-shake is probably over-kill.

Have you, or anyone reading this, ever used Plazma?


#4

[quote]CaliberWinfield wrote:
Thanks, James, I really appreciate the feedback.

Yeah, I thought the post-workout protein was a bit over-kill, but after years of hitting that anabolic window, it was a hard habit to break. I have my meal like an hour or so after the workout, and have a shake with that, so, yeah, the post-shake is probably over-kill.

Have you, or anyone reading this, ever used Plazma? [/quote]

I’ve used Plazma and it’s simply fantastic. I agree that every other article on T-Nation these days is just trying to sell their supplements, but I also think they have the best ones out there. If you can’t afford Plazma I’ve also used Surge Workout Fuel which is phenomenal. I tried that before Plazma and it changed my life. Now I switch between the two depending on goals and budget.

Seems like you’re drinking a fuck-ton of Gatorade every day. I have no scientific studies to back me but I feel like that can’t be good for you. Not only is it a mediocre energy source, all those simple sugars you’re ingesting are probably fucking with your metabolism and definitely pre-disposing you to blood sugar problems down the line.

Maybe try leaving out the Gatorade (or at least cutting your intake in half) and see if it really makes a difference for you performance-wise.

EDIT: Just looked back at the original post. 72 ounces of Gatorade is fucking insane. That’s definitely got serious potential to fuck with you later in life.


#5

Due to budget, I haven’t personally used it but given its key ingredients, which I have used, I wouldn’t doubt it’s efficacy as an excellent standalone supplement. There are plenty of threads on here about it. John Meadows appears to have hijacked a version of his own too.


#6

Gatorade is good to drink during your workout. Or around that time. I would replace the other Gatorade consumption with water. Too much sugar not going to proper use.


#7

Gatorade ingredients: WATER, SUGAR, MALTODEXTRIN, ACID (CITRIC ACID), MINERAL SALTS (SODIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM CITRATE, MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, MAGNESIUM OXIDE), EMULSIFIERS (GUM ARABIC, GLYCEROL ESTERS OF WOOD ROSINS), NATURAL FLAVOURING, SWEETENERS (SUCRALOSE, ACESULFAME K), COLOUR (BETA CAROTENE), ANTIOXIDANT (ALPHA TOCOPHEROL).

Good for you? Value for money? I know my answer.


#8

Yeah, I was trying to follow a dosing protocol I read in one of T-Nation’s articles. Then I looked at Plazma, and tried to match the ingredients on my own.

So, would I be better off going:

Wake Up: 24oz of water.

15-20 Minutes Before Gym: 12oz of Gatorade, 15-20g of Whey Isolate.

During Workout: 36oz of Gatorade with 1 scoop of BCAA with a 4:1:1 profile, and 30g of Whey Isolate.

I’d also like to add that it’s so insanely refreshing to have found a forum like this. Unfortunately, I’m use to certain other forums that belong to a very well known bodybuilding site, and I’d rather ask the business end of a bear trap than anyone around those parts. Thanks, guys.


#9

Considering the cost of all the Gatorade, whey protein, and BCAA’s that you’re taking, is Plazma or, especially, Surge Workout Fuel, really any more expensive? Another thing to consider is the quality of the whey protein, as there is a lot of junk out there. High-quality, pure whey protein isolate (without cheap fillers, fats, sugars, etc.) is not inexpensive in my experience. Nor is Gatorade. You may want to add up the costs (and consider the quality…) and compare.

I’m not trying to sell Biotest products (though I use them myself and have found them to be generally excellent), but I do know that some people dismiss them as being too expensive when they are unwittingly paying as much or nearly as much for inferior products.


#10

Plazma is $70 for 20 servings. They suggest taking two per workout, and even pre-loading with half a dose. I work out 6 days a week, and with their dosing protocol, it’d be gone in a week, so I’d have to spend $280 a month on just that alone.

Now, with my Whey Isolate, I’ve been using it for years, and have zero problems. I also use M.M. it is $20 a bottle, which last me anywhere from 10-14 days. My BCAA are $20 a month. I only take one scoop a day. The Gatorade I get in those big, 3lb tubs with like 70 servings or something. Those last about 3 weeks, if not longer, and cost $8.

So, I spend maybe $130 or so on those. And I also use the proteins through out the day, and not just pre & post.

I will say though, I’ve been doing this current form of pre & intra dosing for a week, and I do notice a difference. First off, I have a ton of energy during the workout. When I’m done, I literally have to fight myself to go home, and that’s after an hour and a half or so. Then through out the day, I feel like my pump doesn’t go away, and I literally look bigger. I dunno, it could very well all be placebo. I’m gonna give it a month before deciding for sure.


#11

You will pay about the same, better ingredients with SWF and BCAA’s.

And, you will not tax your liver as much.


#12

JamesBrawn has already been clear on it and I don’t know if another person chiming in can make a difference for you, but…

Gatorade is not a quality product.

Large amounts of Gatorade are not a good idea.

The sugar content is 50% fructose which cannot be used by muscles and is in no way equivalent metabolically or for health to glucose, glucose polymers (inclusive of cyclic dextrin, maltodextrin, etc) or starches.

You’re drinking the wrong sugar, in huge quantities.

The advice given would be a big improvement.

If you must use a sugar instead of cyclic dextrin or a maltodextrin, then use glucose (dextrose.)

There is nothing magic about the electrolyte formula of Gatorade. If you’re interested I can give you a better one. Or as JWF mentions, Surge Workout Fuel would be better yet and is not a costly product.

It’s hard to believe there’s anything special about Gatorade’s flavor.

So the type of sugar is crappy, nothing special about the electrolytes, nothing cheaper about the price, so why the fixation?


#13

I just checked the Surge Workout Fuel page on pricing. With the 15% discount Biotest is offering, you could get 4 containers for $170. You mention that you do six 90-minute workouts per week. Biotest recommends three scoops of Surge Workout Fuel for a 90-minute workout. Four packages of Surge Workout Fuel would have enough for about 160 scoops, which would equate to about 53 90-minute workouts (let’s say 50 to keep the numbers round). That would last you for two months of workouts, so the cost would be $85 per month.

If you can afford the $130 per month you say you are currently spending, then you would still have about $45 each month left over for the whey protein and BCAA mix if you wish to keep them in your diet at other times of the day to meet your macro goals. Again, I don’t want to sound like a Biotest salesman, but when you do the math it does help clarify the picture. And as always, there is the issue of quality… Good luck with everything!


#14

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

I should probably mention I’m lactose intolerant, and neither Surge nor Plazma say they’re without it, unfortunately.

Oh, and Bill, I only use the powder form of Gatorade, which is made with Dextrose.

I’ve been doing some research, and saw that

Now, peptides, is that just broken down protein, like BCAA?


#15

Much better that it’s dextrose. In that case while still not anything special at least it’s not creating the problem that the sucrose version does.


#16

Di and tripeptides differ from branched chain amino acids in that BCAA’s are single (free form) amino acids, while di and tri peptides are comprised of two or three amino acids. Where this is relevant is that the body transports these differently. The absorption capacity for di and tri peptides is much higher than for free form. Some dipeptides, particularly some of those which include a leucine, also appear have effects that the free form aminos do not (there’s some scientific research in this area but not a great deal.)

From the practical standpoint in bodybuilding, the difference is noticeable.

Surge Workout Fuel has no lactose. The hydrolyzed casein of Plazma measures as zero grams lactose and doesn’t have any lactose beyond, possibly, residual traces far below anything having effect for those who are lactose intolerant. It’s used by lactose intolerant people without problem. I don’t have information on the lactose content of the whey hydrolysate of Surge Recovery but have never heard of a problem with it.


#17

Wait for Bill to reply, but I think I’ve heard either him or Chris saying that it’s actually okay to use Surge if you’re lactose intolerant even though it does say it contains milk.


#18

Bill, what are your thoughts on hydro casein versus hydro whey? I believe the research is scant and, although there is some evidence that the former can trigger hyperaminoacidemia, is there a strong argument for this over its whey counterpart (especially for those on a budget)?


#19

I wouldn’t be able to say from research results as so far as I know there are none that prove the point as to results for weightlifting and bodybuilding, but only (both for myself and anyone evaluating) from personal experience and reported personal experience of others.


#20

[quote]CaliberWinfield wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

I should probably mention I’m lactose intolerant, and neither Surge nor Plazma say they’re without it, unfortunately.

[/quote]

I’m highly lactose intolerant and I’ve use SWF and religiously use Plazma currently. Zero issues on both for me.