T Nation

How Would You Proceed...


#1

So here is my question... My weight currently floats between 205 and 210 pounds. I have weighed as much as 225 (I was REALLY fat then though) and IMO that was to much for me. It seemed my frame hurt with that weight. Of course it could be because I was 225 of fat. One problem I have is that in my right knee I have BAD arthritis. According to my orthopedist there are 4 stages of arthritis and I am at the 3rd... So weighing less would be a benefit for that.

What I think I am going to do is diet down (basically just by eating clean and not eating excessively) until I get to 185 / 190. Then from there See how I feel / look and either lose some more weight (hopefully in fat) or try to put on some more muscle and see how I look feel at the 205 lbs of muscle...

Anyway, I am curious to know what others think of this. I am not against weighing more, just at this moment I do not think it is right for me. I am not looking to be OMFG HUGE, but being a over 200 pounds and at 12% or lower body fat sounds fine to me. I guess I am looking for suggestions. Maybe someone else here has bad arthritis and can give me advice based on there experience.

Thanks for whatever input you can provide!


#2

I don’t have arthritis.

however, if your body hurts and it’s being linked to your weight, by all means man, lose some weight


#3

Yea that is what I am doing now. What I am curious to know (and will try toe find out) is if I weigh what I weight now but have alot more muscle supporting my structure will I still hurt? In my (getting more educated) mind adding muscle to my frame will actually improve its ability to absorb the shock of everyday life.

Heh, maybe there is a better forum to post this question in…

It is sad that in Hind site I blame some of (if not all of) my knee problems on poor coaching in weight lifting when I was in High School. They taught bad form for a squat and by the end of it I most likely had a muscle imbalance between my quads and hamstrings that might of played a factor in my persistent injuries. They RARELY had us doing exercises that worked our hamstrings. Only if I new then what I new now.

Thanks for the reply Holy Macaroni!


#4

Do you have any idea what you’re eating everyday? Sometimes all it takes is a little consistency and elimination of the crappier stuff in your diet.

S


#5

You’re asking weather or not that having quality mass will be better on the joints then having fat mass?
I’m no doctor… But logically I can see how quality mass at a certain weight is better then fat mass at the same weight on the joints.

I think this is a pretty decent question if someone with some experience could chime in, that would be awesome. So I can tell people to blow it when they tell me that me gaining weight will be bad on my joints. Or whatever other excuse people like give out to try and bring people down…


#6

[quote]patrickk wrote:
You’re asking weather or not that having quality mass will be better on the joints then having fat mass?
I’m no doctor… But logically I can see how quality mass at a certain weight is better then fat mass at the same weight on the joints.

I think this is a pretty decent question if someone with some experience could chime in, that would be awesome. So I can tell people to blow it when they tell me that me gaining weight will be bad on my joints. Or whatever other excuse people like give out to try and bring people down…[/quote]

mass is mass no?

if you have a bridge with a capacity for 500 pounds

and you put 501 pounds of rocks on it the bridge will collapse

if you put 501 pounds of paper on it the bridge will still collapse.

so if your knees can only withstand 200 pounds on them i dont see how it makes a difference whether your upper body is 200 pounds of muscle, fat, or if its 150 pounds and you have a 50 pound back pack on because it still all equals the same.

but then again biology is tricky stuff so who knows, i dont for sure.


#7

Well, don’t your muscles help support the joints? So if you have more muscle surrounding and assisting the joints, you would theoretically be able to handle more weight?


#8

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Do you have any idea what you’re eating everyday? Sometimes all it takes is a little consistency and elimination of the crappier stuff in your diet.

S
[/quote]

Yes, I am getting better with my food intake everyday. I probable drink close to 2 gallons of water a day (between actual water and mixed with my shakes), my normal breakfast is 2 or 3 eggs with 2 pieces of whole wheat toast. A few hours later I will usually have some Metabolic Drive mxied with Greens + and Water. Lunch is usually some sort of meat (roughly the size of my palm) and either a mixed green salad with balsamic vinaigrette or veggies. Usually a few hours later I snack on Raisans and Almonds. Dinner is usually similar to my Lunch (I try to cook enough for the week). Then I have a pre and post workout shake. the post workout shake usually has another serving of Greens+ in it. I am REALLY liking greens+. The taste is horrible, but I enjoy the effects it has on the body. I have not had to take ANY antacids since I have started using it (and I have acid reflux disease).

So that and cleaning up alot of the starchy carbs in my diet have helped considerable. I know my food intake isn’t perfect (and I most Saturdays I eat something not so good for me) but it is slowly getting better. I also take 4 to 8 flameouts a day…

[quote]LiveFromThe781 Wrote:

mass is mass no?

if you have a bridge with a capacity for 500 pounds

and you put 501 pounds of rocks on it the bridge will collapse

if you put 501 pounds of paper on it the bridge will still collapse.

so if your knees can only withstand 200 pounds on them i dont see how it makes a difference whether your upper body is 200 pounds of muscle, fat, or if its 150 pounds and you have a 50 pound back pack on because it still all equals the same.

but then again biology is tricky stuff so who knows, i dont for sure. [/quote]

To use your bridge analogy, this is my line of thinking and the questioning I bring…

If you have a bridge that can only take 500 pounds but then you add more support to it (Muscle) then it could then support more weight. So, as I put on muscle in my lower body (I am doing alot of Front squats(they seem to cause less discomfort) deadlifts, lunges, step-ups etc…) will it then help my joints support the weight I am carrying. I want to get to a weight of around 195 pounds. I like the way I look and feel at that weight (when I was last there at least).

So that is my goal. BUT If I can look and feel the same way at 205 as I did at 195 I would prefer that. That extra lean muscle would look good I think.

@patrickk --> You seem what I am saying / asking…

Thanks for the replies everyone


#9

[quote]bibby wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
Do you have any idea what you’re eating everyday? Sometimes all it takes is a little consistency and elimination of the crappier stuff in your diet.

S

Yes, I am getting better with my food intake everyday. I probable drink close to 2 gallons of water a day (between actual water and mixed with my shakes), my normal breakfast is 2 or 3 eggs with 2 pieces of whole wheat toast. A few hours later I will usually have some Metabolic Drive mxied with Greens + and Water. Lunch is usually some sort of meat (roughly the size of my palm) and either a mixed green salad with balsamic vinaigrette or veggies. Usually a few hours later I snack on Raisans and Almonds. Dinner is usually similar to my Lunch (I try to cook enough for the week). Then I have a pre and post workout shake. the post workout shake usually has another serving of Greens+ in it. I am REALLY liking greens+. The taste is horrible, but I enjoy the effects it has on the body. I have not had to take ANY antacids since I have started using it (and I have acid reflux disease).

So that and cleaning up alot of the starchy carbs in my diet have helped considerable. I know my food intake isn’t perfect (and I most Saturdays I eat something not so good for me) but it is slowly getting better. I also take 4 to 8 flameouts a day…

[/quote]

No wonder your body hurts. It is starving.


#10

heh, I eat about every 3 hours. I don’t feel hungry. I feel energetic and I feel healthy… my body hurts because I have had 4 knee operations on one knee. That is alot of damage done to a joint in a relative should amount of time (4 years time frame for 3 of the operations) 2 ACL tares and 3 Meniscus tares do not leave a knee feeling good.

Alas, i am still trying to dial in on my diet some more. I have snacky type foods for me to munch on at work (the raisins / almonds) along with MD shakes if I feel weak.

Why force myself to eat when my energy levels are high, my mental state is sharp, and my body feels physically strong?


#11

[quote]bibby wrote:
heh, I eat about every 3 hours. I don’t feel hungry. I feel energetic and I feel healthy… my body hurts because I have had 4 knee operations on one knee. That is alot of damage done to a joint in a relative should amount of time (4 years time frame for 3 of the operations) 2 ACL tares and 3 Meniscus tares do not leave a knee feeling good.

Alas, i am still trying to dial in on my diet some more. I have snacky type foods for me to munch on at work (the raisins / almonds) along with MD shakes if I feel weak.

Why force myself to eat when my energy levels are high, my mental state is sharp, and my body feels physically strong?[/quote]

How many calories is that? Don’t eat if it if you don’t want to, but that looks like a typical day in the life of my 120 lb wife.


#12

haha I actually don’t no how many calories it is. It is rather possible I am not eating enough, I just don’t think that is why i hurt. I will get better at writing down what I eat and use one of those sites to see a rough estimation of my calories for the day.

According to Precision Nutrition Online Calorie Calculator I should be taking in around 3024 calories a day for fat loss. It is probable safe to say that I am no where near that…

So, yea I do need to eat better quality / Caloric dense food.

My weight loss is probable stagnant because I am not eating enough calories. So i see where you were going with that. Sorry if I sounded confrontational… I appreciate the advice.


#13

Dude, from what yo described, you eat MAYBE 1500 cal/day.

What???


#14

hahaha okay I get it I get it… I need to eat more. :slight_smile:

starting tonight I will eat more!!! Well with what little there is left of today.


#15

[quote]bibby wrote:
haha I actually don’t no how many calories it is. It is rather possible I am not eating enough, I just don’t think that is why i hurt. I will get better at writing down what I eat and use one of those sites to see a rough estimation of my calories for the day.

According to Precision Nutrition Online Calorie Calculator I should be taking in around 3024 calories a day for fat loss. It is probable safe to say that I am no where near that…

So, yea I do need to eat better quality / Caloric dense food.

My weight loss is probable stagnant because I am not eating enough calories. So i see where you were going with that. Sorry if I sounded confrontational… I appreciate the advice.[/quote]

It is probably not the only reason you hurt given the surgeries, but if you think severly undereating while you are putting yourself through stress (i.e. excercise) will not contribute to aches and pains as well as make you more succeptable to injury then you might want to reconsider the role food plays to the body. The body needs to use food to repair itself both from injuries and the damage done through excercise.


#16

[quote]GuerillaZen wrote:
bibby wrote:
haha I actually don’t no how many calories it is. It is rather possible I am not eating enough, I just don’t think that is why i hurt. I will get better at writing down what I eat and use one of those sites to see a rough estimation of my calories for the day.

According to Precision Nutrition Online Calorie Calculator I should be taking in around 3024 calories a day for fat loss. It is probable safe to say that I am no where near that…

So, yea I do need to eat better quality / Caloric dense food.

My weight loss is probable stagnant because I am not eating enough calories. So i see where you were going with that. Sorry if I sounded confrontational… I appreciate the advice.

It is probably not the only reason you hurt given the surgeries, but if you think severly undereating while you are putting yourself through stress (i.e. excercise) will not contribute to aches and pains as well as make you more succeptable to injury then you might want to reconsider the role food plays to the body. The body needs to use food to repair itself both from injuries and the damage done through excercise.
[/quote]

Yea, that makes sense… a furnace needs fuel to work so to say (my father used to tell me that all the time).

I will have to get better at keeping track of what I eat to make sure I eat enough. Thanks for making things come into better focus for me.


#17

Go to www.onecrumb.com and use the daily caloric intake calculator for your ht/wt stats. You’d be suprised how many kcals you can eat in a day and still lose fat. i.e:

me:

===================================

Around 200 lbs

11-12% BF

HT: 6’4’’

I work out 6 times a week and have an “active” job.

Daily maintenance kcal for me = 3400 kcal

to lose a pound a week = 2800 kcal

to gain a pound a week = 4100+ cals

====================================

Get your extra cals from fish oil in general. Should help your joints too.

A little off topic, but are you doing cardio at all? Also, take a look at CT’s METABOLIC INTERVALS page.


#18

You know how they say “ask your doctor before beginning an exercise regimen”? This would be one of those times. I guess that building some muscle around your knee might help. I could also guess that putting stress on it might blow it out. Ask your orthopedist. If he’s not comfortable with the whole “weights” thing, then get a referral to someone who specializes in things like rehab.

But cutting weight down to a low body fat sounds like a no brainer. I’m sorry you have to eat like a girl now.


#19

[quote]bibby wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
Do you have any idea what you’re eating everyday? Sometimes all it takes is a little consistency and elimination of the crappier stuff in your diet.

S

Yes, I am getting better with my food intake everyday. I probable drink close to 2 gallons of water a day (between actual water and mixed with my shakes), my normal breakfast is 2 or 3 eggs with 2 pieces of whole wheat toast. A few hours later I will usually have some Metabolic Drive mxied with Greens + and Water. Lunch is usually some sort of meat (roughly the size of my palm) and either a mixed green salad with balsamic vinaigrette or veggies. Usually a few hours later I snack on Raisans and Almonds. Dinner is usually similar to my Lunch (I try to cook enough for the week). Then I have a pre and post workout shake. the post workout shake usually has another serving of Greens+ in it. I am REALLY liking greens+. The taste is horrible, but I enjoy the effects it has on the body. I have not had to take ANY antacids since I have started using it (and I have acid reflux disease).

So that and cleaning up alot of the starchy carbs in my diet have helped considerable. I know my food intake isn’t perfect (and I most Saturdays I eat something not so good for me) but it is slowly getting better. I also take 4 to 8 flameouts a day…

LiveFromThe781 Wrote:

mass is mass no?

if you have a bridge with a capacity for 500 pounds

and you put 501 pounds of rocks on it the bridge will collapse

if you put 501 pounds of paper on it the bridge will still collapse.

so if your knees can only withstand 200 pounds on them i dont see how it makes a difference whether your upper body is 200 pounds of muscle, fat, or if its 150 pounds and you have a 50 pound back pack on because it still all equals the same.

but then again biology is tricky stuff so who knows, i dont for sure.

To use your bridge analogy, this is my line of thinking and the questioning I bring…

If you have a bridge that can only take 500 pounds but then you add more support to it (Muscle) then it could then support more weight. So, as I put on muscle in my lower body (I am doing alot of Front squats(they seem to cause less discomfort) deadlifts, lunges, step-ups etc…) will it then help my joints support the weight I am carrying. I want to get to a weight of around 195 pounds. I like the way I look and feel at that weight (when I was last there at least).

So that is my goal. BUT If I can look and feel the same way at 205 as I did at 195 I would prefer that. That extra lean muscle would look good I think.

@patrickk --> You seem what I am saying / asking…

Thanks for the replies everyone[/quote]

ah, i see. biology is weird lol.

anyway, fwiw if your joints suck lifting heavy is just going to fuck with them more. its not like my joints have gotten any better from lifting, trust me.


#20

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:

mass is mass no?

if you have a bridge with a capacity for 500 pounds

and you put 501 pounds of rocks on it the bridge will collapse

if you put 501 pounds of paper on it the bridge will still collapse.

so if your knees can only withstand 200 pounds on them i dont see how it makes a difference whether your upper body is 200 pounds of muscle, fat, or if its 150 pounds and you have a 50 pound back pack on because it still all equals the same.

but then again biology is tricky stuff so who knows, i dont for sure.[/quote]

Not always, and I’m an example in this case. After years of playing hockey as a goalie, it left my knees in less than desirable shape. After I stopped playing my knees always ached and matters as simple as getting out of a chair were pretty painful. It was only until I started increasing the muscle mass in my legs that the pain started going away. A few years later, and I have NO knee soreness anymore.