T Nation

How/Where to Incorporate Olympic Lifts/Variations into my Strength Program?


#1

This is my current split basically:

MON & FRI
-Front Squat 3x5
-OHP 3x5
-BB Row 5x5 (Mon) | Pendlay Row 5x5 (Fri)
-Pull Ups 4xF
-Abs
-BB Complex (Finisher)

WED
-Front Squat 3x5
-Dips 5xF (BW)
-Deadlift 3x5
-Chin Ups 4xF
-Abs
-Farmers Walk

Where Would I add in Snatches and C&J?

The person I've been learning the Oly lifts from was telling me DLing would mess with my technique, so I should drop those in favor of clean/snatch pulls.

Since I want to develop my general strength and learn the technique for Olympic lifts he said for a few months I could possibly do something like this. His reasoning was since I won't be doing the full lifts with weight added until I can have solid positioning at all the points of the lift with just the bar this should work fine.

MON
Front Squat
Overhead Press
Snatch Pull/DL (Warm up sets are pulls, working sets are DL)
Pull Ups
Snatch (Just the bar until technique and positioning is SOLID)
Abs

WED
Back Squat
Jerk/Push Press
Barbell Row (Volume)
Dips
Farmers Walk
Abs

FRI
Front Squat
OHP
Clean Pull/DL (Warm up sets are pulls, working sets are DL)
Pull Ups
Clean & Jerk (Just the bar until technique and positioning is SOLID)
Abs

He thinks this will allow me to keep gaining general strength while learning the technique for the lifts.

What do you guys think of this? How would you split it out if you had only 3 days to practice/lift?


#2

He is absolutely right about everything, especially the part about deadlifts messing up your technique. Just do what he says.


#3

Looking good to me.

Only one thing: DL does not harm your O-lifts or vice versa. The setup is different in each lift (clean, dl, snatch), but there are thousands and thousands of lifters who train the O-lifts and DL at the same time with no problem. You should not prioritize DL and the O-lifts simultaneously, but doing them in the same program is no problem at all.


#4

Standard practice is to organize a session like this:

  1. Warmup
  2. Technique work
  3. Speed/ Power work
  4. Strength Work
  5. Hypertrophy Work
  6. Energy Systems/ Conditioning Work

Essentially you want to start with things that are the most neurologically taxing and progress to things that are more metabolically taxing. Because the olympic lifts are both highly technical and powerful movements, they should probably be placed first in your workout (after the warmup, obviously). From there you can move to your strength and hypertrophy work. As for how to program the actual lifts themselves, I can’t really help you there.


#5

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Looking good to me.

Only one thing: DL does not harm your O-lifts or vice versa. The setup is different in each lift (clean, dl, snatch), but there are thousands and thousands of lifters who train the O-lifts and DL at the same time with no problem. You should not prioritize DL and the O-lifts simultaneously, but doing them in the same program is no problem at all. [/quote]

I’d say it’s lifter dependent. Years spent deadlifting meant that, when I tried to learn cleans as a strongman, my technique was jacked up. The best solution I’ve come up with is to never clean from the floor, always starting from an elevated position. Otherwise, I can’t get the starting pull sorted out, and always try to deadlift the clean.


#6

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Looking good to me.

Only one thing: DL does not harm your O-lifts or vice versa. The setup is different in each lift (clean, dl, snatch), but there are thousands and thousands of lifters who train the O-lifts and DL at the same time with no problem. You should not prioritize DL and the O-lifts simultaneously, but doing them in the same program is no problem at all. [/quote]

When they are proficient in olympic lifting technique. Not before that. The setup AND execution are different.


#7

I’m actually also cleaning only from the hang/blocks, but haven’t done the lift very long yet, so I’m a bad example. I do see many O-lifters train deadlift with no problems in my gym though.

Assuming that OP is novice/intermediate, the neural/technical adaptations aren’t problem yet.


#8

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Actually I’m also cleaning only from the hang/blocks, but haven’t done the lift very long yet, so I’m a bad example. I’ll see many O-lifters train deadlift thought.

Assuming that OP is novice/intermediate, the neural/technical adaptations aren’t problem yet.[/quote]

Ah understood. Then you wouldn’t know the problems a deadlifter would have rewiring himself just to execute the 1st pull.


#9

No I would not. But I’m not holding my self as an example here.

Like I said, I know competitive O-lifters who deadlift with no problem.

I also admit that first doing only deads for_years_could cause technical problems when learning the O-lifts.


#10

[quote]Rattus wrote:
No I would not. But I’m not holding my self as an example here.

Like I said, I know competitive O-lifters who deadlift with no problem.

I also admit that first doing only deads for_years_could cause technical problems with the O-lifts.[/quote]

Yes, I understand. I’m not arguing with you lol. I’m just stating the reasons why I feel he should listen to his instructor.


#11

No problem.

Just writing in rush.


#12

Luckily for me my DL technique was already close to a clean pull by accident.
My trainer said it’s probably due to my body type and the length of my limbs that I naturally went more in that way.

I am still a beginner however and I think trying to learn TOO many things could be detrimental to me at my current stage.

I will never be a powerlifter so I’m thinking that the clean/snatch pulls will work fine for me. For example if I can clean pull 315lbs, I’m sure that my DL would probably be the same or higher.


#13

[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
Standard practice is to organize a session like this:

  1. Warmup
  2. Technique work
  3. Speed/ Power work
  4. Strength Work
  5. Hypertrophy Work
  6. Energy Systems/ Conditioning Work

Essentially you want to start with things that are the most neurologically taxing and progress to things that are more metabolically taxing. Because the olympic lifts are both highly technical and powerful movements, they should probably be placed first in your workout (after the warmup, obviously). From there you can move to your strength and hypertrophy work. As for how to program the actual lifts themselves, I can’t really help you there. [/quote]

So since I’m not doing any actual speed/power work until my technique is better, I’m guessing I can just move my snatch & clean to the beginning of my workout before I do all my strength work?


#14

So I’m thinking my split should look more like:

MON
Snatch 5x4 (Technique)
Front Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Snatch DL 3x5 (Warm up sets are pulls, working sets are DL)
Pull Ups 4xF
Abs 4x12
Farmers Walk 3 Rounds

WED
Jerk 5x4 (Technique)
Back Squat 3x5
Dips 3x5
BB Rows 5x5
Chin Ups 3xF
Abs 4x12
BB Complex 3 Rounds

FRI
C & J 5x4 (Technique)
Front Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Clean DL 3x5 (Warm up sets are pulls, working sets are DL)
Pull Ups 4xF
Abs 4x12
Farmers Walk 3 Rounds


#15

Why do you NOT want to do what your coach recommends?


#16

Because he is technically not a coach. He is just someone who is really good at Oly lifting who is helping me out as a friend. He doesn’t know about program design and all of that and he was upfront about it with me. He said what he gave me is a basic template that he feels like would work for someone at my level.

I just wanted to get others opinion of it. It’s not too different than what I’m doing mine besides I’d be pulling form the floor twice a week and just rowing once.


#17

The program is ok, little spread up thought. You are training for multiply different movements in only 3 days, so you cannot really focus on any of these movements.
This can be taxing, specially when you get stronger.

I have also being taught that learning O-lifts should be done in 1-3 rep range, but that is not written in stone.

I personally like more “minimalistic” templates and I’ll do max 3-4 movements per workout, and only 1 or 2 of these movements are big taxing movements. This forces me to focus only to couple movements/goals at the time.

This is what I would do, if I would really want to learn O-lifts without hindering strength delevopment:

"Dan Johns Solid Neophyte Program

3 times/week:

Start with a little Warm Up
Snatch : 8 Sets of Doubles
Clean and Jerk :8 Sets of Singles
Front Squat: 5 Sets of 5
Press : 5 Sets of 3

Go Home and Recover"

You could do back squats in one day instead of FS and 5x5 OHP - 5x3 squat in one day. No else needed. Only light conditioning.

You could ask your friend how he/she feels about Dans program and consider it as an option.


#18

[quote]isdatnutty wrote:
Because he is technically not a coach. He is just someone who is really good at Oly lifting who is helping me out as a friend. He doesn’t know about program design and all of that and he was upfront about it with me. He said what he gave me is a basic template that he feels like would work for someone at my level.[/quote]
Call me crazy, but 20+ years ago, this is how everyone improved. Dude at gym is good at something you want to be good at, you ask him for help, he says ‘do this, this, and this’, you do that stuff, soon enough you get there.

So yeah, I’d do whatever the guy who sees you in person is suggesting. It doesn’t appear to be an absurd program, so put in hard work, listen and learn, and you should be fine.

I happen to disagree that the Olympic lifts require a ton of focused/specialized technique work unless you’re trying to compete in O-lifting, but he’s got his setup, so train with him whenever you can if that’s what you’re comfortable with.