I came across the natty or juice forum on reddit and I was sort of shocked to see that there is literally no one that is truly natty and has seen some success in the fitness industry. Do people on this forum agree with the people on reddit or are they just hating and being cynical.
Without at tooth or bone sample it really is very hard to tell.
I also think that success is hard to really quantify. Its more like choose your trajectory. Some people make a phenomenal rise, cruise at the top for a short while, then either die or become a nobody. Others may not enjoy that phenomenal rise and short ride at the top, but build a great rep and become pillars of the BB community, and have long, happy and productive lives.
There are others here that could give better and more educated insights into that though.
Ignore the dude above lel
NattyorJuice is full of haters and cynics.
That said they are pretty accurate in their natty or not calls. That’s because the people posted are blatantly juicing. on the less impressive guys there’s potential false positives because of how keen the redditors are to call juicy.
As for success it’s definitely the minority who are successfully natty. Depends on your definition of success tho. In powerlifting there’s quite a few natties because the drugs only add 10-20% and that’s more of work capacity and recovery. On the bodybuilding side of things it’s a bit harder to tell with men and women taking a little just to get that edge on the competition.
As for spotting the juicy…
There’s much easier ways the going full WADA on someone: Visually, logically, thru examination of training history and psychosocial and environmental contextual factors etc. when you get many of these pointing to juicy you’re about 99% certain then it becomes a matter of whether or not you’d give someone the benefit of the doubt on a one percent chance.
There’s too much to go through specifically but hand around discussions on fake natties long enough and you’ll get the full argument from both sides.
If there’s any specific ways to spot juicy you want to discuss or fake natty defences you’d like picked apart chuck us a question
The bone or tooth sample thing was joking.
I don’t actually care about juicing or natty. Knowing either way has never helped me in any way, and I’ve known plenty of anabolic stuntmen that were straightforward about their use.
I don’t use Reddit, but the few times I’ve seen anything on there, it’s been a bunch of uninformed people giving their opinions with no real background to support their very adamant stances. I went to my first natural contest as a spectator in 2006 and I remember thinking to myself “these guys are all juiced out of their minds!” Of course I knew nothing about achieving true contest conditioning, what honest to goodness real muscle, without fat looks like, or how much the illusion of fake tan, spotlights, and carb loaded muscles can add to a guy who onlyh weighs a buck fifty.
Several years later, I got onstage, having dieted down from 210 to 170, and thinking I had lost all of my muscles (after already spending 15 years in the gym!) in the process. My cheeks sunk in, my neck looked like it could barely support the weight of my head, the last thing I thought I looked like was a bodybuilder as I swam in my t-shirt. Fast forward a few hours, and I’m holding a few trophies and looking at pictures thinking “That can’t be me, I don’t look like that, all huge and ripped!”
Most bodybuilders I see getting hate or always used as poster boys for being fake-natties are 140 lbs (Ogus, Elkins…) soaking wet. The top guy in the sport? Whitacre weighs 160-165 lbs. Jim Cordova, with his perfect muscle bellies and tiny joints weighed 154 lbs when he won the Universe… think about those number for a moment.
Now, think about some idiot who spent years in the gym, training half assed, eating a diet that he probably couldn’t tell you how much protein or carbs he got on a given day, who honestly believes his friend in the gym who says he’s “10% year round” really is 10% bf ever, thinks when they see a close up, well lit shot of someone in contest condition, all pumped up, fake tan, and usually alone (so you can’t see how tiny they are).
I used to just shrug my shoulders whenever I saw the “natty or not” threads on many of the bodybuiding forums populated by 16 year old kids and older guys who never truly got in shape. Now, I just laugh at how stupid they all sound. WHat are ya gonna do though. chime in and let them know how uninformed they all are? That’s the thing about stupid people, they don’t know they’re stupid. And when you get a bunch of them together, they feel even more empowered and right in their thinking -lol
Great info!.. I am currently natty and don’t plan on staying that way but i’m only 18 so im not tryna fuck my system up just yet but maybe when im in my mid twenties. When you say get that little edge do you think that these 18 to 20 year olds are going to cause a lot of damage with the amount they are doing or is it much less dangerous. For example guys like David Laid or Dylan Mckenna. Not huge but obviously using something to be so young so strong and so lean all at the same time. Or are they all going to be on TRT and seeing doctors when they are older. Don’t worry your answer will not persuade me one way or the other this is strictly out of curiosity. I don’t need people to give me bad info because they think I am some gullible teen that will stick a needle in their ass at any opportunity.
I think the general consensus on this forum is to train at least until mid 20s before you go on.
There’s a few reasons for this but you’re better off checking the other categories for these.
As for Laid and his crew one can’t really tell. Hell David himself could be natty. That said if they were on we don’t know the protocols so can’t comment on their safety.
Like a lot of things in life if you go about juicing recklessly then you can get hurt. There’s young dudes in gyms all over the world who hop on with only the drugs and advice of their resident anabolic dealer. Some wander onto these forums and get themselves sorted out but many aren’t so lucky and end up messed up by 30.
If, and that’s quite a big if, you go about juicing properly you should be alright short and long term. The general public’s perception of PEDs are that they will make your heart, liver and kidneys explode, drive you insane with rage while also leaving you depressed and suicidal while turning you into a bubble gut bonanza freak. A bit exaggerated IMO.
It’s pretty easy actually.
Traps and delts
Big variations of muscle mass in time (up and down)
Bloated face, acne obviously but also tons of other little things you learn to identify over time, not even related the to absolute amount of muscle and strength.
Some people can do good progress as a natural, but they are the exception. Most dont any progress at all. Even with the juicers most dont do real progress in the long run.
If there is a the doubt, chances are the person isn’t natural. Any time I had a very small doubt I overhead some time after the person talking about it.
If they’re bigger than me they’re juiced up roid monsters. If they’re smaller than me they’re natty.
What is ‘good progress’ in your opinion?
Not at all, I am bigger or at least stronger than all the juicers at my commercial gym.
It’s much easier to tell in person. I’m often very surprised at how big people look in pictures/video - kinda like how surprised I am at how fat I look in photos haha
Every time I see a photo of my self, I’m like “do I even lift” lol
Tells for steroids… pretty much what j said , + muscles that pop, they look like they are pumped even when they are relaxed.
Also with the celebs, actors or sportsman/ufc fighters, they are big one month then several months later they look much more human, deflated and a little flabbier. All pretty good signs someone has been juicing, and has gone off cycle or stopped.
Does he have really good traps?
Hypertrophy of the frontal belly of the epicranius is a dead giveaway.
Either that or the dude figured out eyebrow shrugs.
It’s quite easy to tell actually. Look at a lifetime natty like Simeon Panda and look at his trap and shoulder developement.
Now if you look at someone who is clearly juicing like Phil Heath you’ll see that the high amount of androgen receptors in the trap and delt area shows great development meaning he juices.
I know it’s quite hard to tell but the difference between natty Simeon and juicer Phil is obvious after comparing the two.
Gently cup their balls.
LOL After a quick bit of research, this guy is comparable to Arnie in terms of weight/height/body fat
… and Arnie took steroids
… and Arnie was a genetic freak