How to Target Lower Lats?

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

  • use less weight, initially. it took me a few sessions to be able to handle the next tip:
  • keep your arms 100% locked out.
  • keep your shoulders down.

Also, try using bands. They allow you to rotate your arms forwards, so you’re not depending of the tri’s. that allows you to do some band work between pushing movements.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

You are doing something wrong if that’s the case. shouldn’t be using triceps. [/quote]

Yep. Arms are straight. I don’t use a shit load of weight on these. I do them in a rotation of some other rowing movement like High rows or lat pull downs. If you do that, you will feel it.
[/quote]

Ok will try it out.

[quote]xilinx wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

  • use less weight, initially. it took me a few sessions to be able to handle the next tip:
  • keep your arms 100% locked out.
  • keep your shoulders down.

Also, try using bands. They allow you to rotate your arms forwards, so you’re not depending of the tri’s. that allows you to do some band work between pushing movements.[/quote]

Thanks for the pointers, another quick question and mite sound stupid, do push with the training arm or pull with the arm your leading with or a combo of both?

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]
use less weight, and put a slight bend on the elbows. and think of squeezing the lower lats on every rep… you need that mind-muscle connection for sure.

This hasn’t been mentioned yet, IMO lower lats are much like the upper chest. The other regions of your back/chest are ‘naturally’ more developed. You are unlikely to find people well developed in these areas (lower lats/upper chest) without overall good development unless you are blessed with amazing insertion points or full muscle bellies (eg kai greene).
Phil Heath for example never had amazing lower lats before turning pro but has added so much back mass over and focused on reverse grip bb rows that his lower lats just stand out now.

Don’t know how you look cause you have no pics but your main focus should be bringing up your lats thickness overall while incorporating some of the suggestions above and your lower lats may begin to pop out. You can do so by having two back days a week (width/thickness) if you want. X had success doing pretty much the same thing to bring up his upper chest.

I’m a fan of doing a pullup, a pulldown and a lat row (in addition to 2 upper back movements) for complete back development. Generally the lat row is felt the most in the lower lats, with my staple for that being simple very close grip v bar rows. Just make sure that your elbows are pointed straight down with your upper arms are pretty much grazing against your torso when you’re rowing for lats. Those kayak rows help too if you have difficulty feeling your lats in general. Could do those first to get some mmc going if necessary.

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
I’m a fan of doing a pullup, a pulldown and a lat row (in addition to 2 upper back movements) for complete back development. Generally the lat row is felt the most in the lower lats, with my staple for that being simple very close grip v bar rows. Just make sure that your elbows are pointed straight down with your upper arms are pretty much grazing against your torso when you’re rowing for lats. Those kayak rows help too if you have difficulty feeling your lats in general. Could do those first to get some mmc going if necessary.[/quote]

Could you give me an example of a recent back session of yours?

Awesome back pic!

[quote]NewAdventure wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
I’m a fan of doing a pullup, a pulldown and a lat row (in addition to 2 upper back movements) for complete back development. Generally the lat row is felt the most in the lower lats, with my staple for that being simple very close grip v bar rows. Just make sure that your elbows are pointed straight down with your upper arms are pretty much grazing against your torso when you’re rowing for lats. Those kayak rows help too if you have difficulty feeling your lats in general. Could do those first to get some mmc going if necessary.[/quote]

Could you give me an example of a recent back session of yours?

Awesome back pic![/quote]

Thanks man. My back training is pretty simple.

50 neutral grip Pullups (5x10)
Neutral grip pulldowns
Seated very close crip V bar rows
Chest supported row machine (with seat all the way at the bottom, elbows as high as possible, neutral grip)
Seated wide neutral grip rows
(stretch lats and upper back)
Reverse pec deck (3x12 + 1x12-15)
Standing cable x’s (3x20-30) straight sets

3x8 (ramping up) + 1x6-12 (all out) for everything with unspecified setsxreps

I do everything neutral grip to spare elbow tendons. I don’t do free weight rows because they’re difficult for me to really track progress on because of cheating when the weights get heavier not to mention I feel cables/machines more anyway. And I don’t do deadlifts because RDL’s on hamstring day take care of my lower back strength/thickness. Also, my diet/peri-workout nutrition is impeccable, which allows for what I feel is optimal recovery from that volume.

What is your peri workout nutrition? You stilluse humapro or is that only when recomp/cutting?

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

use less weight
[/quote]

trudat, but also imo i think they are great as a starter to feel the lats before doing a bigger/heavier movement.

[quote]BSC819 wrote:
myself 1992 is that your pic in your avatar? If so what is your entire back routine? You have great overall development and symmetry in your upper and lower back and traps.[/quote]

I find kayak rows done properly will get you feeling your lats better than almost any other exercise out there. I have also always done barbell rows ala yates meaning you keep your torso at a 45 degree angle and you pull towards below your navel. I almost always deadlift at the end of my back workout and have always done a verticall pull. So for the most part it looks like this:

Kayak Rows 4-5 sets just feeling the muscle and going for the pump
close grip pulldown working up to a top set and then doing forced reps
BB rows 2-3 sets
wide grip cable rows to lower chest/upper abs
deadlift

This is also basically what yates did for his back and his back is pretty much the best there is

I just got back from the gym, I tried the kayak rows and I need to work on the form a bit but they were good. I did reverse grip bb rows and I could definitely feel it in my lower lats. I also took the close grib row handle and put it over the chin bar and did 5 sets of 15. Needless to say I had a hell of a pump in my lower lats when I left the gym. Thanks guys for the advise.

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

use less weight
[/quote]

trudat, but also imo i think they are great as a starter to feel the lats before doing a bigger/heavier movement.
[/quote]

i use them as a finisher… man talk about pain

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]NewAdventure wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
I’m a fan of doing a pullup, a pulldown and a lat row (in addition to 2 upper back movements) for complete back development. Generally the lat row is felt the most in the lower lats, with my staple for that being simple very close grip v bar rows. Just make sure that your elbows are pointed straight down with your upper arms are pretty much grazing against your torso when you’re rowing for lats. Those kayak rows help too if you have difficulty feeling your lats in general. Could do those first to get some mmc going if necessary.[/quote]

Could you give me an example of a recent back session of yours?

Awesome back pic![/quote]

Thanks man. My back training is pretty simple.

50 neutral grip Pullups (5x10)
Neutral grip pulldowns
Seated very close crip V bar rows
Chest supported row machine (with seat all the way at the bottom, elbows as high as possible, neutral grip)
Seated wide neutral grip rows
(stretch lats and upper back)
Reverse pec deck (3x12 + 1x12-15)
Standing cable x’s (3x20-30) straight sets

3x8 (ramping up) + 1x6-12 (all out) for everything with unspecified setsxreps

I do everything neutral grip to spare elbow tendons. I don’t do free weight rows because they’re difficult for me to really track progress on because of cheating when the weights get heavier not to mention I feel cables/machines more anyway. And I don’t do deadlifts because RDL’s on hamstring day take care of my lower back strength/thickness. Also, my diet/peri-workout nutrition is impeccable, which allows for what I feel is optimal recovery from that volume.[/quote]

Thanks for the detailed reply!!

Stretching lats mid workout is a killer - clearly effective though.

clearly effective is questionable

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]xilinx wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kayak rows.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Tried these on several occasions, my triceps ALWAYS burn out before my lats do, any pointers?

[/quote]

  • use less weight, initially. it took me a few sessions to be able to handle the next tip:
  • keep your arms 100% locked out.
  • keep your shoulders down.

Also, try using bands. They allow you to rotate your arms forwards, so you’re not depending of the tri’s. that allows you to do some band work between pushing movements.[/quote]

Thanks for the pointers, another quick question and mite sound stupid, do push with the training arm or pull with the arm your leading with or a combo of both?
[/quote]

Depending on what’s my major for that day, and what is for active rest…on back day, I’ll ‘waste’ the triceps (so I might use cable attachment), on chest day I’ll use only bands, so I can rotate my arms and not waste triceps recovery between sets.

use your mind, young padawan

[quote]BSC819 wrote:
I am starting to get an inbalance in my back. My upper back and traps are pretty developed and my lower lats are almost non existant. I know that lower lats are a area that lots of people have trouble getting up to speed. Does anyone have any advise that has had this problem before?[/quote]

Try doing one arm pull ups and chin ups, and/or regular pullups. (Pullups = pronated, Chin Ups = supinated)

Also, you may just like the pullover. Here’s a link to a pullover thread which also has links to articles about it with some conclusions near the end of the thread.

Bodybuilding legends say it is the only exercise that will truly isolate the lats.

No, it won’t expand your ribcage, although it will stimulate the serratus anterior which is among the ribcage and cartilage (giving that impression maybe). Anyway, for your purposes it doesn’t matter.

I have just started incorporating barbell pullovers so I can’t speak for their effectivity yet although I can definetely feel the lats being stimulated.

[quote]BSC819 wrote:
I am starting to get an inbalance in my back. My upper back and traps are pretty developed and my lower lats are almost non existant. I know that lower lats are a area that lots of people have trouble getting up to speed. Does anyone have any advise that has had this problem before?[/quote]

2 things trying to rows in the smith machine it seem to keep you lockin. Second my favorite exercise for back would be camber bar rows, it really help you squeeze and fell your lower lats contract.

Cambered bar row.MPG - YouTube

Just to give an update. I have been also thropwing in the kayak rows at the end of my back workout and I am definitely feeling the isolation in my lower lats. They are kick ass.