T Nation

How to Monitor HCG Dosage?


#1

I am out of country NZ,

I have read the stickies and believe I understand the protocols pretty well, I will be sharing this with a doctor I can find down here.

I see that for testosterone, that you use symptoms and blood test numbers to target upper end.
I see that for estradiol levels you control with ai meds.
I may have missed something in here, but what exactly do you test for to monitor for the hcg dosage?

Thanks


#2

you don't.

you can only really go by symptoms.


#3

Purechance,

If then I get my Testosterone and estradiol in the correct range so to speak, and I understand that is with symptoms and numbers, what symptoms might i be looking at to adjust the hcg up or down? I realize if your gonads get smaller that is one, but it seems there would be a more 'sensitive' or early sign symptom to look for.

Thanks


#4

There isn't a real rule. Dosing runs from around 200 to over 1000 units once a week to EOD. It comes down to the balance with test and keeping E2 in check. My doctor says "sense of well being" and I feel that at 300 units twice a week.


#5

I have actually stopped HCG and seem to be doing better, others seems to do better on just HCG and no T.

HRT is really more like abstract art when we are hoping for some form of science.


#6

Great feedback, thanks,

I have read about hcg mono therapy, but my understanding is that it is best used in the younger generation, I am mid 50's, but I have not started anything yet and I am open to suggestions on a starting point.


#7

HCG makes your balls more full, not less full (it was unclear from your post).

HCG monotherapy will work for some, and there are more ways to skin the cat. Since you are in NZ, and they are way behind the times as far as TRT goes, you are probably better off starting out with Testosterone and then adding in the AI and HCG later, as your symptoms and bloodwork warrant.

Reports out of the land of the kiwi are that it is very hard to find a doc who is willing to prescribe an AI or HCG, so you may have to go online to source those themselves. Unless you win the lottery and find the single competent doctor switched on to TRT in your country.


#8

VT balla

THanks for your input, means a lot to me, you bring much to this forum.

My post was that I understood that HCG prevents gonad shrinkage, and I think I understand that it keeps sperm production and other hormone production going.

One other comment, from what I have been reading, I have seen references that HCG can facilitate or increase amortization. Does this mean that it acts as an agent for this or does it do this by increasing our own testosterone production thus causing more aromatizing?

I understand my limitations, though will try to work through the indian pharmas you have referenced.

Cheers


#9

HCG will do a lot for maintaining testicular function, including sperm production (allegedly) but the jury is still out on its efficiency for sperm production while on TRT/HCG. It appears to be hit or miss as far as your swimmers are still in the pool while on HCG. But some have had success using HMG (not to be confused with HCG) to increase fertility while on TRT.

Even if HCG doesn't keep the sperm flowing while on, I am convinced it will make everything easier for child bearing once you stop TRT (temporarily) to get your girl pregnant even if you decide not to utilize HMG.

As far as aromatization goes, it is due to the increased testosterone production thus causing more aromatization (your latter statement). For whatever reason, this seems harder to combat with adex than just exogenous T alone. KSMan theorizes this is due to the localization of the aromatization within the testes, since adex has more of an affinity for other other tissues.


#10

VTBalla,

Thanks for that explanation regarding HCG and aromatization. Excuse me if I am mistaken, but I took a note of a statement that I believe you wrote but failed to make a specific reference to, but maybe you can help me out anyway.

I think you wrote the following regarding sexual dysfunction, I am being general here as I do not recall the specific reference, but suspect about someone who had issues with libido and or ED.

"Be sure to test prolactin, E2, DHT, and thyroid. One of these will probably shed light on your issue. "

My question is when you test for these, I understand their is an approach to dealing with E2 and thyroid, but what is it you do if there is high or low prolactin and or DHT?

Also, I have read that regarding SHBG, if it is high, you can use Danazol or stanazolol to lower it as it effects free T and libido/ED, any experience with this?

Regards


#11

No experience with danazol or stanazolol...I do not put much emphasis on treating high SHBG...from most of the cases I've seen, high SHBG is highly correlated with High E2...when you bring E2 down, SHBG comes down as well and Free T rises

I probably have written what you attributed to me at some point...Although, instead of thyroid, I think I would have said "FREE T" instead...though they can all contribute, but I think Free T is a better indicator than thyroid...

If your prolactin is high, you can bring it down with a prolactin inhibitor...I think its called dosanex, but Im pretty drunk at the moment so I may be off on that...Caber also rings a bell

For increasing DHT, you can increase Total T and hope more converts to DHT...this is most easily accomplished by rubbing androgel on the nutsack...I am still trying to sort DHT issues out myself, and haven't gone the andorgel route, hoping to get there from just increased TT...jury is still out


#12

VTBalla,

Here is the link to thread with your comment:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/problems_climaxing_on_trt?pageNo=0#bottom

In the stickies KSMan makes reference to the fact that someone with higher SHBG, especially older men, that total T of equivalent value in a younger man is not the same. Is it then an option to raise total T above upper range and drive Free T even higher while using the AI to get the benefit of TRT with a higher SHBG?

Thanks