T Nation

How to Lower Very High SHBG/Creatine Kinase Levels w/out Permanent Damage to HPTA?


#1

Hi, new member hear. Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong place.
I have been dealing with low T symptoms going on for a long time now. Low to no sex drive, brain fog, memory issues.
Age: 20
Height: 5ft 7"
Weight: 75 kg
Waist: 28"
Facial Hair: Is quite thick but there isnt much
Body Hair: everywhere and thick
Body Fat: Around 10%

These results were taken before iodine replenishment and taking an additional 10000iu of vitamin d3 daily. I have also just started the anabolic diet

Blood test results: (Key results are the ones with a star next to them)

FREE TESTOSTERONE 12.98 pg/ml 4.000 -30.000

17-BETA OESTRADIOL 47.39 pmol/L 44.000 -156.000

FAECAL OCCULT BLOOD Not Detected

Andropause Profile
D.H.E.A. Sulphate 10.0 umol/L 0.44 -13.4
FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE 3.2 IU/L 1.5 -12.4
LUTEINISING HORMONE 4.2 IU/L 1.7-8.6
TESTOSTERONE 18.6 nmol/L 7.6 -31.4
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB * 89 nmol/L 16 -55
Testosterone/SHBG Ratio * 20.9 24 -104

HAEMATOLOGY
PROFILE
Red Blood Cells
HAEMOGLOBIN (g/L) 146 g/L 130 -170
HCT 0.449 0.37 -0.50
RED CELL COUNT 4.64 x10^12/L 4.40 -5.80
MCV 96.8 fL 80 -99
MCH 31.5 pg 26.0 -33.5
MCHC (g/L) 325 g/L 300 -350
RDW 12.7 11.5 -15.0

White Blood Cells
WHITE CELL COUNT 6.47 x10^9/L 3.0 -10.0
Neutrophils 3.85 x10^9/L 2.0 -7.5
Lymphocytes 2.06 x10^9/L 1.2 -3.65
Monocytes 0.48 x10^9/L 0.2 -1.0
Eosinophils 0.07 x10^9/L 0.0 -0.4
Basophils 0.01 x10^9/L 0.0 -0.1

Clotting Cells
PLATELET COUNT 196 x10^9/L 150 -400
MPV 11.9 fL 7 -13
Inflammation Marker
ESR 2 mm/hr 1 -10
BIOCHEMISTRY
PROFILE
Kidney Function
SODIUM * 146 mmol/L 135 -145
POTASSIUM 4.7 mmol/L 3.5 -5.1
CHLORIDE 101 mmol/L 98 -107
BICARBONATE 28 mmol/l 22 -29
UREA 5.3 mmol/L 1.7-8.3
CREATININE 108 umol/L 66 -112
Liver Function
BILIRUBIN 7 umol/L 0 -20
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 81 IU/L 40 -129
ASPARTATE TRANSFERASE * 107IU/L 0 -37
ALANINE TRANSFERASE * 54 IU/L 10 -50
CK * 2646 IU/L 38 -204
GAMMA GT 11 IU/L 10 -71
Proteins
TOTAL PROTEIN 72 g/L 63 -83
ALBUMIN 49 g/L 34 -50
GLOBULIN 23 g/L 19 -35

BIOCHEMISTRY
PROFILE
Minerals
CALCIUM 2.50 mmol/L 2.20 -2.60
Corrected Calcium 2.44 mmol/L 2.20 -2.60
PHOSPHATE 1.13 mmol/L 0.87 -1.45
Gout Test
URIC ACID 271 umol/L 266 -474
Diabetes Test
RANDOM BLOOD GLUCOSE (FL) 4.9 mmol/L 3.5 -7.9
FASTING
BLOOD GLUCOSE (FL) 4.9mmol/L 3.5 –5.8
Iron Profile
IRON 20.0 umol/L 10.6 -28.3
T.I.B.C 47 umol/L 41 -77
TRANSFERRIN SATURATION 43 % 20 -55
Lipid Profile
TRIGLYCERIDES 0.5 mmol/L < 2.3
CHOLESTEROL 3.6 mmol/L Optimum <5.0
HDL CHOLES
TEROL 1.3 mmol/L 0.9 -1.5
LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.1 mmol/L Up to 3.0
Heart Disease Risk
HDL % of total 36 % 20 and over
ENDOCRINOLOGY
Thyroid Test
FREE THYROXINE 14.6 pmol/l 12.0 -22.0
Prostate Screen
Prostate Specific Ag(Total) 0.30 ug/l 0.00 -1.40
Prostate Specific Ag(Free) 0.12 ug/l 0 -0.90
Free:Total ratio 0.40 >0.19 is normal

The first numbers are my results and the second set are the normal ranges

I workout six times a week

I matured very early and still have a young looking face

I took these tests because i just didn’t feel right and haven’t for a while and with the time Ive put in at the gym for many years i should have got more gains than i have.
I have read the stickies and done Iodine replenishment and definitely feel better after three weeks of 50mg per day with a added 400mcg of selenium per day. I am currently on my fourth
and still feeling increased well being but i am not sure when to stop taking this.
Before iodine replenishment my waking temp was 36.0 degrees Celsius and now its 36.7

I have read that winstrol can lower shby by 50% after a three day dosing of 20mg per day and i was also looking at proviron and another drug i didn’t like the look of called danazol i think. I am extremely worried as i was advised that i may need trt and i really want to have kids when I’m older.

So should i do some kind of cycle to sort this out i.e:

-High dose test cycle to reduce shbg as test is safer than winstrol
-Use low end trt dose of test with an addition of winstrol or proviron
-Or just a short cycle with either winstrol or proviron

And how long to run these for and with what pct.

I am interested in the safest possible way

I don’t know whether to do a HPTA restart or what

I was wondering what some of the vets recommend i should do next as i am scepticle about going to a doctor that’s not private as i don’t want this on my medical record for jobs in the future such as the fire service and i was looking at the armed forces as a possibility. I used a private clinic for theses tests which cost me a fortune (but now have better connections thanks to Tnation and should get bloods done cheaper) and they told me to go to my GP. So i showed them my results and they said that they would need to do these tests again themselves for their records even though the results i have are probably more accurate. I thought my GP didn’t have a clue as he said everything is normal here and chemically you have everything that you need but it could be related to a psychological spinal problem. So i think he basically said that my problem is psychological and i am fine.

I said that id think about it because i really want to find a way to fix this and still be able to do the things i want in the future.

I live in the United Kingdom

I understand that high levels of exercise can cause an increase in ck levels but i thought that this level was too high to just be that. I also take on and off 5g creatine per day
Before the anabolic diet i used to take in very little fat with 160g protein per day and filling the rest of my 2500 caloric intake with carbs such as sweet potatoes, oats and lots of vegetables with a little fruit.

This might sound stupid but i cannot think of any other variables that might be causing my high shbg levels as my diet has always been to a t, but i don’t get much sleep, id say around 6-7 hours a night as i work 70-80hours a week driving a forklift. At school i was obsessed with training and always got my ten hours sleep.So here it is, members of my family are interested in natural bodybuilding and have placed third in Britain at age 19 for the under 21s. Knowing this when i was younger i wanted to be better so i decided to stop masturbating full stop and didnt have a gf so there was no release besides nocturnal emissions. At the start i experienced a huge increase in aggression and my time and gains at the gym were great. Then they slowed to a halt and it seemed like i was shut down and i started to have no progress and started to go backwards.

I suppose another high possibility is that i have a liver condition but i don’t drink as it makes me feel horrible the next day and i get drunk really easily.

My question is could i have naturally shut down my hpta and this has hindered my growth? And with me producing near to zero testosterone could my shbg have built up over the years as there was nothing for it to bind to or be used with?

My blood tests were done after i started masturbating again and i felt better but for some reason i was really struggling to get off.

Since IR i have started to get morning glory again which is great but not every day (about twice a week) there is less brain fog but its still there a lot of days.

All help appreciated. I’m just really scared about this ATM and was wondering the best way to go about this without jeopardizing my future goals i.e. kids with a good job that i make a big difference in. I’d love to be a fireman like some others in the family.


#2

A low total testosterone level would be 10 - 12 nmol/L, and yours is 18.6 nmol/L.

For free testosterone, hypogonadism is reckoned to kick in somewhere around 6.5 pg/mL, some doctors will treat up to 8 pg/mL. You’re at nearly 13 pg/mL, which is OK.

I don’t think that you’re hypogonadal. There are conditions that can give similar symptoms to Low T. For example, I suffer from depression, which also flattens your libido, especially if you’re taking an SSRI.

As for building muscle, a rule of thumb for drug free men is that competition weight will be around their height in centimetres minus 100. At 5’7" (170 cm), you’d be looking at going on stage at 70 kg. So you might be bumping into your limits.

SHBG can be raised by liver conditions, and some of your numbers there are high. I’d be asking the doctor to investigate that.

Also, get your thyroid checked. Too much iodine can cause problems, and it might be worth backing off on the replenishment programme.


#3

Things don’t add up with his TT,SHBG and FT numbers. Calculated FT would be very Low.


#4

The numbers are:

  • TT: 18.6 nmol/L
  • SHBG: 89 nmol/L
  • Albumin: 49 g/L

The Free Testosterone calculators at ISSAM and Nebido both give 183 pmol/L, which is 5.3 ng/dL.

That is low.

I wasn’t paying attention, and the labs flipped the units for free and total. I’d just assumed that they’d run them through the ISSAM calculator too.

I’d still suggest starting with the liver. The fact that there are a few elevated numbers suggest there might be a problem there. But I’m not a doctor, so would suggest taking advantage of the free NHS.


#5

What was your source of iodine before? None?

Your response to IR really indicates a thyroid issue from low iodine. You MUST have selenium in diet/supplements, all the more important during IR!

Please see these stickies linked here: About the T Replacement Category
advice for new guys
things that damage your hormones
thyroid basics
browse for others

TT is inflated when SHBG as T+SHBG increases, which is non-bioavailable.

Repeat liver profile after very light training and with no muscle soreness.

E2 - estradiol is quite low, nothing to be gained by lowering that artificially.

I can not advise cycle specifics to lower SHBG, but strongly agree with your thought process. There is a risk that HPTA might not recover after PCT. Note that most PCT advice is horribly wrong.


#6

Thank you all for your input, its very much appreciated. I cant believe the legend KSman himself has wrote back. No absolutely no iodine intake at all. But it was ridiculous how much i loved sea food (probs body naturally craving it and should have listened but couldn’t afford to eat seafood a lot).

I forgot to add that with my IR i was taking 400mcg of selenium per day

I have read the stickies KSman and i will read them again but could you please elaborate on what you meant by:

TT is inflated when SHBG as T+SHBG increases, which is non-bioavailable.

Also because Ive just started to get mourning wood scince IR should i start again untill i stop seeing an improvement?
Then do some of my blood tests again

As for repeating my liver profile with no muscle soreness, I always seem to be sore somewhere (I’m not healing to well) and seem prone to injury just in day to day things never mind training.

I understand what you are saying Graemsay about taking advantage of the NHS as i know i am very lucky to have free medical care. But I’m in a predicament with my future job ambitions and would rather pay well over whats needed if it meant a clean medical record.
If anyone has any thoughts on how to do this I’m intrigued?

Is it a possibility to get medical care in another country and then come back with no medical paper trail? I know i would have to pay a lot for this if its possible


#7

Just as written. I pointed out the effects of elevated SHBG.

TT is FT & T+SHBG & T+albumin. T+SHBG cannot activate T receptors, gets cleared by the liver. In this case, TT levels can be misleading [inflated] and the TT over states your T status.


#8

The free testosterone results i had taken at a later date but shortly after the other tests (after two weeks)

and these results seemed normal? even given the numbers of my other results?

FREE TESTOSTERONE 12.98 pg/ml 4.000 -30.000

I think that i am now going to retake the tests shortly as i do feel alot better after IR

My prediction is that my testosterone will have increased but the shbg will have remained the same


#9

Hi everyone
I have waited a lot of months now to do some good blood work and i am hoping things will have balanced out. I am still very worried that my body is permanently damaged.

Could somebody post me a link as to where i can get accurate blood work in the UK for everything i should test for?
Its been a lot of months and i am now not sure what i should be testing for.

Could somebody also try to make sense of my results that i took two weeks later and just my figures in general, its a puzzle that i still cant solve.

I know its a long post but please read all my figures

Thanks


#10

Hi mate, it seems we are in a similar predicament, my post is here if you wish to read:

Did you get your liver enzymes retested? If not I would recommend you doing so. If your enzymes are still elevated I would suggest going to the doctors about it.
It has been some months since your last test so I would redo your hormone panel and possibly thyroid but maybe wait for some more advice as I am no expert.

I am in the UK and have been using medichecks for my blood tests. There may be better options that I am unaware of but I have been pleased with them and their results seem accurate when compared with my NHS tests. Also they are very quick, meaning you could have your results in a few days.

Good luck mate! I will try to follow your case.


#11

Yeh i had a look at yours mate and i have looked at medichecks before but the price seemed a bit steep and i rang and they didn’t seem to be able to check everything I wanted them to.

I just don’t get why other people on this site aren’t giving blood-work contacts as personal messages. Im thinking should i be posting in the pharma forum.