How To Look At Produce

I don’t get too bent out of shape over GMO vs. non-GMO produce; I prefer to buy certified organic meat and produce for the same reason that I still get my parents to send me stuff from the garden on the family farm - it tastes about 100 times better, and I know that the micronutrient profile is a helluva lot better.
That’s my take.

That is your opinion that they have an agenda.These are still scientific studies. [quote]gojira wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:

Science Shows GM Foods Are Dangerous

New Study Shows Humans Are at Danger from GM Foods

A scientific study on GM foods has been published and it shows dangers.
What about previous studies? Ah well, the anti-science GM corporations (and government agencies that are supposed to watch over them) have not previously made any such studies! They simply pay lobbyists to get government approval to sell their untested products. You and your children are being used as guinea pigs.

As Craig Winters of the Campaign to Label Genetically Engineered Foods puts it, “A new study published by the British Food Safety Standards Agency is the world’s first known trial of genetically engineered foods on human volunteers. Don’t you find that incredible? How in the world can the biotech industry say these foods are safe when they have never done any peer-reviewed clinical feeding studies on humans?”

Here are some excerpts from recent news reports appearing in the Daily Mail (UK) and released by Friends of the Earth.

by Sean Poulter
Eating GM food can change the genetic make-up of your digestive system and could put you at risk of infections that are resistant to antibiotics, experts said today.
A British study has revealed that volunteers who ate one meal containing genetically modified soya had traces of the modified DNA in bacteria in their small intestines.

Scientists now fear that GM foods, which are often modified to be resistant to antibiotics, will leave Britons vulnerable to untreatable diseases. The research contradicts repeated claims by the GM industry that gene transfer from foods to humans is extremely unlikely. It also raises the possibility that millions of people may already have GM bacteria from food they have eaten.

Geneticist Dr Michael Antoniou, London, said the results indicated the need for an extensive GM foods testing programme. He added: “The most significant finding is that there is GM soya DNA in the bacteria at readily detectable levels in the small intestines. It was always said by the industry that this could not happen or was extremely unlikely.”

Dr Antoniou added: “Bacteria in the gut are going to take up genes that will make them resistant to potentially therapeutic antibiotics. The possibility is that someone who picked up the antibiotic resistance through food and then fell ill, that a medical antibiotic might not be effective.”


Genetically Engineered Crop Gene Found for First Time in Bacteria in Human Digestive System; Concerns About Antibiotic Resistance Raised
New evidence from British scientists raises serious questions about the safety of genetically engineered foods. A study published by the British Food Safety Standards Agency (FAS) showed for the first time that a gene inserted in a genetically engineered crop has found its way into bacteria in the human gut.
Many engineered crops have antibiotic resistance marker genes inserted in them, and there are fears that if material from these marker genes passes into humans, people’s ability to fight infections may be reduced.

Researchers fed a single meal of a hamburger and a milk shake that both contained genetically engineered soy to study participants. According to the FSA gene uptake study, entitled “Evaluating the Risks Associated with Using GMOs in Human Foods” (pp. 22-27, http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/science/sciencetopics/gmfoods/gm_reports ), an herbicide resistance gene from a Roundup Ready variety of engineered soy was found by researchers in bacteria from the small intestines of three out of seven study participants (pg. 24).

Adrian Bebb, GM food campaigner for Friends of the Earth UK said, “This research should set alarm bells ringing. Industry scientists and government advisors have always played down the risk of this ever happening, but the first time they looked for it they found it.”

The biotech industry has long maintained that DNA is destroyed during digestion and that there are barriers to incorporation of genetically engineered crop genes by bacteria. According to a March 4, 2001 news release by the multi-million dollar biotech lobbying initiative called the Council for Biotechnology Information, “the DNA contained in food – including the antibiotic-resistance gene – is broken down in the human gut during the digestive process.”

However, those assertions crumbled under the FSA findings, which showed that engineered crop genes can survive digestion long enough to be incorporated by bacteria.

The new evidence raises safety concerns for people eating genetically engineered foods. In particular, if antibiotic resistance genes used in some varieties of engineered crops are being picked up by bacteria in the intestines of people eating engineered foods, this could increase bacterial resistance to life-saving antibiotics.

According to Michael Antoniou, a senior lecturer in molecular genetics at King’s College Medical School in London, the study “suggests that you can get antibiotic marker genes spreading amongst the bacterial population within the intestine which could compromise future antibiotic use. They have shown that this can happen even at very low levels after just one meal.”

Given the research results, Friends of the Earth is calling for the immediate withdrawal of genetically engineered crops containing antibiotic resistance markers from the market. The organization also calls for further research into the effects of gene transfer to bacteria.

In May 1999, the British Medical Association also called for a ban of crops with antibiotic resistance marker genes stating, “There should be a ban on the use of antibiotic resistance marker genes in GM food, as the risk to human health from antibiotic resistance developing in micro-organisms is one of the major public health threats that will be faced in the 21st Century.”

I said studies from peer-reviewed journals - not web site articles from groups such as “Friends of the Earth”.

O.K., let me explain my scepticism. I work for one of those three letter acronym agencies. I cannot tell you how many times I have read news accounts or web sites dealing with events and issues I have personal knowledge of, which are grossly in error, sensational and purposely biased in order to elicit a response from the public, separate them from the money in their wallet or sell publications.

It is for these reasons I don’t believe what I read unless there is a good measure of credibility to back it up.

Your pals at Friends of the Earth have an agenda. That makes for very bad science (and the link is bad). [/quote]

cthulhu, as witnessed in other threads your understanding of what science is and your critical thinking skills are highly flawed. Before running around screaming about what “scientist say” or “scientific studies” report, why don’t you sit down and learn how the scientific method actually works and get a grasp on where we stand now. Everytime I read one of your post it almost makes me cry. I have a website for you:

http://www.junkscience.com/

Also you should try to read some basic science books. You know, biology, physics, chemistry, geology, astronomy, and math. Also carl sagens book “demon haunted world” and bill brysons book “a short history of nearly everything” will give you a good base.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
That is your opinion that they have an agenda.These are still scientific studies. gojira wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:

Science Shows GM Foods Are Dangerous

New Study Shows Humans Are at Danger from GM Foods

A scientific study on GM foods has been published and it shows dangers.
What about previous studies? Ah well, the anti-science GM corporations (and government agencies that are supposed to watch over them) have not previously made any such studies! They simply pay lobbyists to get government approval to sell their untested products. You and your children are being used as guinea pigs.

[/quote]

Thank God for Gojira, if there is one thing that pisses me off it’s this shit.

Cthulhu do you even know what a peer reviewed journal is? Get cracking and produce some evidence from something that is remotely credible.

If I have to do it for uni then you have to do it for T-Nation.

I have been pm’ing Gojira on this supporting her contentions. So to publicly support her, she has hit it right on the head. Most media are profit seeking (and that is not a negative), but it does mean that as a reader I need to be aware of any bias that the mag/newspaper/tv has. The original author may well have been very nuetral (not likely, but possible) in writting the article, but the editor may insert/change words to more value laden ones. That person might do so to increase readership/circulation which drives ads and that is where the profit is.

Credible? I wouldn’t be that closeminded to say that GMOs are healthy.There haven’t been enough research done on this subject.But I’m not gonna go around saying they’re healthy when no one is researching this.Just because Gojira says something doesn’t mean it’s true.The same is for me.
Show me one study that shows eating gmo’s is healthy. [quote]jacross wrote:
Thank God for Gojira, if there is one thing that pisses me off it’s this shit.

Cthulhu do you even know what a peer reviewed journal is? Get cracking and produce some evidence from something that is remotely credible.

If I have to do it for uni then you have to do it for T-Nation.[/quote]

First of all,I don’t know how this thread got into wheather GMOs are healthy or not.Oh,thats right.Gojira coming in here telling me her opinions,not facts.I was posting it for those who believe it isn’t a healthy choice.Like I said,maybe there should be more research done on this subject.Maybe I am wrong,maybe they’re wrong.Maybe one day a credible source will guide us.But until then,I am inclined to my own opinions.

[quote]Charlie wrote:
I have been pm’ing Gojira on this supporting her contentions. So to publicly support her, she has hit it right on the head. Most media are profit seeking (and that is not a negative), but it does mean that as a reader I need to be aware of any bias that the mag/newspaper/tv has. The original author may well have been very nuetral (not likely, but possible) in writting the article, but the editor may insert/change words to more value laden ones. That person might do so to increase readership/circulation which drives ads and that is where the profit is.

[/quote]

The beginning of a sentence should have a CAPITAL letter(in this case “A”).Maybe you need to read some books on basic English. [quote]Flop Hat wrote:
cthulhu, as witnessed in other threads your understanding of what science is and your critical thinking skills are highly flawed. Before running around screaming about what “scientist say” or “scientific studies” report, why don’t you sit down and learn how the scientific method actually works and get a grasp on where we stand now. Everytime I read one of your post it almost makes me cry. I have a website for you:

http://www.junkscience.com/

Also you should try to read some basic science books. You know, biology, physics, chemistry, geology, astronomy, and math. Also carl sagens book “demon haunted world” and bill brysons book “a short history of nearly everything” will give you a good base.

Cthulhu wrote:
That is your opinion that they have an agenda.These are still scientific studies. gojira wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:

Science Shows GM Foods Are Dangerous

New Study Shows Humans Are at Danger from GM Foods

A scientific study on GM foods has been published and it shows dangers.
What about previous studies? Ah well, the anti-science GM corporations (and government agencies that are supposed to watch over them) have not previously made any such studies! They simply pay lobbyists to get government approval to sell their untested products. You and your children are being used as guinea pigs.

[/quote]

Gojira-
I do not purchase foods containing GMO’s, but I am interested in hearing any information you have to share. When I have more time I will try to continue this conversation.

That’s a boy. When you know your argument it too weak to defend you can always go with the old grammer or spelling attack. However, going after capitalization is pretty lame. Did you just finish the 3rd grade?

I’m not much at spelling or grammer, but I do work on my English along with my Russian, Pashto, Dari, and Spanish. From your post I can tell that you have no desire to work on your weakness in science, yet you insist on posting pseudo-science garbage continually. You didn’t even have an idea how old the earth was in a previous post. Wake up and start reading a science book. Trust me it’s for your own good.

If you PM me I have tons of basic science websites, skeptic websites, and a good basic sience reading list. If you don’t like critical thinking you can always stop and go back to being a follower.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
The beginning of a sentence should have a CAPITAL letter(in this case “A”).Maybe you need to read some books on basic English.
[/quote]

I have a book called The Skeptical Environmentalist.

It has a chapter dedicated to cancer rates, chemical pollution, pesticides etc.

The top causes of cancer are poor diet, tobacco and infection. Poor diet is number one. Source Doll and Peto 1981 from the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. These three sources account for 75% of all cancers.

Pollution, including but not limited to pesticides accounts for 2% of all cancers.

The number one key to reducing the dietary causes of cancer is to eat your veggies.

Organic may be slightly better than non organic but I don’t believe the world has the capacity to grow enough veggies using “organic” techniques in order to provide enough veggies for all.

By eating “organic” veggies you are acting as selfishly as the average SUV driver by using more than your share of a limited resource. (Growing capacity).

A little food for thought.

There are no long term research studies to confirm or deny the deleterious effects in humans of transgenic, irradiated or other produce that has been modified in any way. The combustible hydrocarbons in the air we breathe are far more dangerous than a transgene you consume in your fruit.

How long can you hold your breath???

How old the earth was? There are studies that say it’s been around for millions of years,and there are some that say billions of years.No one really knows for sure,but I do believe it’s about four thousand years old.I’m not the one who says GMOs are safe,but have no studies showing that they’re healthy/safe.I guess we agree to disagree. [quote]Flop Hat wrote:
That’s a boy. When you know your argument it too weak to defend you can always go with the old grammer or spelling attack. However, going after capitalization is pretty lame. Did you just finish the 3rd grade?

I’m not much at spelling or grammer, but I do work on my English along with my Russian, Pashto, Dari, and Spanish. From your post I can tell that you have no desire to work on your weakness in science, yet you insist on posting pseudo-science garbage continually. You didn’t even have an idea how old the earth was in a previous post. Wake up and start reading a science book. Trust me it’s for your own good.

If you PM me I have tons of basic science websites, skeptic websites, and a good basic sience reading list. If you don’t like critical thinking you can always stop and go back to being a follower.

Cthulhu wrote:
The beginning of a sentence should have a CAPITAL letter(in this case “A”).Maybe you need to read some books on basic English.

[/quote]

It is not about whether GMOs are healthy. It is about the fact that there having been sufficient, appropriate studies, with well-designed research schemas, that are peer-reviewed that say they aren’t. And this is what science demands. I respect that you don’t want to take a chance with your body based on some preliminary (emphasis) research. But there are ‘studies’ that support every possible scenario on any imaginable situation. What becomes genearally accepted ‘fact’ is when there is a body of reasearch-that is studies that all, for the most part, lead to the same conclusions after years of picking them apart and eliminating as many discernable confounds as possible.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Credible? I wouldn’t be that closeminded to say that GMOs are healthy.There haven’t been enough research done on this subject.But I’m not gonna go around saying they’re healthy when no one is researching this.Just because Gojira says something doesn’t mean it’s true.The same is for me.
Show me one study that shows eating gmo’s is healthy. jacross wrote:
Thank God for Gojira, if there is one thing that pisses me off it’s this shit.

Cthulhu do you even know what a peer reviewed journal is? Get cracking and produce some evidence from something that is remotely credible.

If I have to do it for uni then you have to do it for T-Nation.

[/quote]

You believe the earth is 4,000 years old? You cannot be serious. There are bones from HUMAN skeletons well older than that. There are documented CIVILIZATIONS older than that.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
How old the earth was? There are studies that say it’s been around for millions of years,and there are some that say billions of years.No one really knows for sure,but I do believe it’s about four thousand years old.I’m not the one who says GMOs are safe,but have no studies showing that they’re healthy/safe.I guess we agree to disagree. Flop Hat wrote:
That’s a boy. When you know your argument it too weak to defend you can always go with the old grammer or spelling attack. However, going after capitalization is pretty lame. Did you just finish the 3rd grade?

I’m not much at spelling or grammer, but I do work on my English along with my Russian, Pashto, Dari, and Spanish. From your post I can tell that you have no desire to work on your weakness in science, yet you insist on posting pseudo-science garbage continually. You didn’t even have an idea how old the earth was in a previous post. Wake up and start reading a science book. Trust me it’s for your own good.

If you PM me I have tons of basic science websites, skeptic websites, and a good basic sience reading list. If you don’t like critical thinking you can always stop and go back to being a follower.

Cthulhu wrote:
The beginning of a sentence should have a CAPITAL letter(in this case “A”).Maybe you need to read some books on basic English.

[/quote]

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
You believe the earth is 4,000 years old? You cannot be serious. There are bones from HUMAN skeletons well older than that. There are documented CIVILIZATIONS older than that.
[/quote]

Everyone knows its 4.55 billion years old. We learn that in what, 7th grade?

Sure I do.I’m not the only one who believes that.Most christians belive the world is a few thousand years old too(6 thousand or maybe a little more).

No one knows for sure.I’ve seen studies telling us that the world is a billion years old,and others saying it is only a few milion years old.Every year I hear of some new study saying the earth is another million years old.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
You believe the earth is 4,000 years old? You cannot be serious. There are bones from HUMAN skeletons well older than that. There are documented CIVILIZATIONS older than that.

Cthulhu wrote:
How old the earth was? There are studies that say it’s been around for millions of years,and there are some that say billions of years.No one really knows for sure,but I do believe it’s about four thousand years old.I’m not the one who says GMOs are safe,but have no studies showing that they’re healthy/safe.I guess we agree to disagree. Flop Hat wrote:
That’s a boy. When you know your argument it too weak to defend you can always go with the old grammer or spelling attack. However, going after capitalization is pretty lame. Did you just finish the 3rd grade?

I’m not much at spelling or grammer, but I do work on my English along with my Russian, Pashto, Dari, and Spanish. From your post I can tell that you have no desire to work on your weakness in science, yet you insist on posting pseudo-science garbage continually. You didn’t even have an idea how old the earth was in a previous post. Wake up and start reading a science book. Trust me it’s for your own good.

If you PM me I have tons of basic science websites, skeptic websites, and a good basic sience reading list. If you don’t like critical thinking you can always stop and go back to being a follower.

Cthulhu wrote:
The beginning of a sentence should have a CAPITAL letter(in this case “A”).Maybe you need to read some books on basic English.

[/quote]

I think our boy is referring to the age of the earth as calculated by several biblical scholars - you know, they used the bible to determine how long ago Genesis occurred(on the fifth day, God created marshmellows, etc).
Oh, those dinosaur bones, and the rest of the fossil record? That was just God’s little joke on all those paleontologists. :wink:

Haha! really?I don’t know what school you go to but I never learned that it was 4.55 billion years old.

I was watching the news a few days ago and they said it was three billion years old.

                [quote]TheArrow wrote:

jsbrook wrote:
You believe the earth is 4,000 years old? You cannot be serious. There are bones from HUMAN skeletons well older than that. There are documented CIVILIZATIONS older than that.

Everyone knows its 4.55 billion years old. We learn that in what, 7th grade?[/quote]

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Sure I do.I’m not the only one who believes that.Most christians belive the world is a few thousand years old too(6 thousand or maybe a little more).
[/quote]

Time to pull out the Flying Spaghetti Monster.