This is my first post here. I just started trt 2 months ago. Im 46. Its really been helping energy and I have gained weight which has been really hard to do before. I am thinking about hcg because I dont want by balls to shrink. Plus they make other stuff the body uses like pregnenalone. But what happens when someone just stops taking hcg? I read somewhere its “addictive”. That was in reference to a steroid recovery protocol. I dont recall how much they were taking but it said do not take it for too long or your body will be dependent on it. But people are talking about using hcg as part of their trt protocol. Does that mean if the person stops taking hcg after a long while, they are worse off than when before they started? I just dont want to take something that could mess me up in the long run. Im thinking long term here. I might be 46 , but I just recovered from a serious illness, so my life is kinda restarting right now. I have many yrs ahead of me.
It’s not. You go on it, you go off, maybe your balls change size, maybe your E2 goes up a little when on it and back down when you stop. You will not become “Dependent” or “Addicted”. Most people are morons and have no idea what they are talking about.
You have been misled about HCG. Severely misled.
@hardartery provided you with a short answer but it is accurate AF.
Go on the YouTube channel I do work with called TRT and Hormone Optimization. There is lots of content regarding HCG.
You don’t need HCG unless you are concerned about preserving fertility and even then you can always add it later. When starting TRT always stick to just testosterone and no ancillaries like arimidex. That way you know exactly how you respond.
If you bloat up simply reduce your T dosage.
You can bloat up a bit when starting and it typically passes. If it doesn’t, it’s a sign you may be taking too much.
Thanks, I will look there on youtube. I was just getting off the computer and I saw this post…Personal Experience with HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization . Two people here are saying they Leydig cells got desensitized to hcg. The first person had lots of other factors involved, but " nibble" said his was shut down for months and at first he didnt seem like he thought it was permanent… So apparently its not so simple as “stop taking it and everything goes back to normal” . I guess they were taking larger doses than someone just taking it like I would though.
I’ve had a few docs tell me this is a myth. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Ok, thanks. So if I understand correctly: bloating is sometimes normal at first, but then if the bloating stays and gets worse that means my body is making too much e2, so I should then take less test?
I already experienced a little bloating for a week or so at firsy but that is gone now.
It’s normal at first. You are completely altering the hormonal landscape of your body. If the bloating stays it could be a sign of a number of things and, no, has zero to do with making too much E2. None of the guys I work with take an AI and none are bloated. My E2 is over 60. Take a look at my instagram page and tell me if I look bloated to you. Your bloating is already going away so as you can see, it was transient.
Thanks ! Now Im not scared to take hcg. I know there is a lot of bs online. This seemed like a good place for info.
My dr never even heard of hcg. He said to prevent shrinkage I should just take a dose of testosterone once in awhile whenever I need a boost!! I thought that was idiotic! It takes a couple weeks to build up before I could even tell its working.
So when would you need an AI? Is it based on personal symptoms, not just e2? I thought I needed to get a e2 test to make sure it was not too high
Nevermind, I just found your youtube videa about trt and AI " bro science debunked". Going to watch it now
My understanding is the study people used to use to say this happened was based on mice and the dose they were using was equivalent to 10,000IU’s for a human. So… little different than the typical couple hundred IU dose that we see around here.
Thanks, very interesting! Good to know info. I did not want to take an AI anyway.
This off topic kinda but do you know anything about progesterone? I was given 200 mg/ day of bioidentical progesterone for tbi ( traumatic brain injury). I stayed on it because It amazingly cured my lifelong anxiety problem. Ive been taking it for 2 yrs now. I read that progesterone can limit adrenaline. Thats how it stopped my anxiety problem. I used to be in " fight or flight" all the time. My sympathetic nervous system was stuck on high. Progesterone stopped that. It was life changing.
I also read progesterone can limit estrogen or balances it somehow. I also read progesterone can be turned into testosterone.
I have not found much other info about what progesterone does in men though…especially high doses long term. Would you happen to know if any harm can come from a guy taking 200 mg progesterone/ day?
I’m having a hard time pinning down the exact effects of high doses progesterone in men. It does counter alot of estrogen effects. Its important in the menstrual cycle and peaks as estrogen declined and declined as estrogen rises. Tells a woman’s body shes not pregnant and tells her to shed her monthly preparations for the development of a fetus.
Something along those lines. Its effects in men seem to be much less extensively researched compared to the research on estrogen as far as I can tell.
It does seem to help the development of some secondary sex characteristics in women such as the milk ducts in breast tissue however this only seems to happen if the tissue is already being developed by high estrogen low testosterone and in the presence of elevated growth hormone.
I.e. the hormonal state of a girl going through puberty.
So I strongly suspect these things won’t happen to a guy unless you transition into a girl and cycle progesterone/estrogen on some 28 day period and take mk677 before bed or something.
I could be totally wrong here. Im still really trying to figure this out because I have taken pregnlone before and really I only noticed a change in mental state and a clearing of my testosterone induced acne.
Pregnlone I think tends to convert into progesterone alot over estrogen/testosterone. I think progesterone more so affects cortisol which then affects epinephrine and norepinephrine.
Lots of guys use progesterone-based steroids and the only downsides are related to high prolactin.
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t these compounds also possess stronger than test activity at the androgen recptors?
I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. I know a little bit about some of the compounds but outside of this context I cant find a whole Lotta useful information on that for male high doses.
If you know of any resources I’d definitely like to read about it more.
If you read through, and know a few things about body function, it’s obvious that they have no idea what they’re talking about and their conclusions do no match the available data. As in, their personal data even.
Yeah, there doesnt seem to be much info about progesterone and men. After over 2 yrs on 200/ mg day it has not done anything weird that I can tell. I have not tested my prolactin but I will. The trt is acting like it should. I gained 10 lbs of healthly weight on it and sex drive went way up. I dont think the progesterone its messing with my androgen receptors. All I know is that it works better than valium for my type of anxiety problem. Its amazing. I used to be on 30 mg valium per day for 15 years.