How to Get Abs Back?

[quote]ahu2468 wrote:

What you are speaking about is also true, C+F by itself absent of protein = not so great.[/quote]

Yea I agree with this 100%

I dont even think I realized thats what was going on in the OPs post. Akuma, if thats part of what you were talking about then I missed that, my fault.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Its amazing how someone can be so lost with all of the good info on this site.

That routine is bad.

You literally have to unlearn all of the shit you think you know and restar from square 1

3 working sets? 3 working sets of your max for X reps? Really?? You are appraoching this completely backwards. [/quote]

Explain to to me what I’m doing wrong. Don’t just post and say shit like “that routine is bad”. How am I approaching this completely backwards? Not sure what you mean by X reps. I do max effort for the amount of reps I listed and 3 sets of it. (3 working sets by meaning that those are the sets I go all out on)

Yeah I get OP is not eating enough protein.

But what exactly is wrong with a F+C meal if you are hitting your daily protein intake requirement in your other meals? Are these calories suddenly not as good when protein is absent?

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Yeah I get OP is not eating enough protein.

But what exactly is wrong with a F+C meal if you are hitting your daily protein intake requirement in your other meals? Are these calories suddenly not as good when protein is absent? [/quote]

Its not a black a white rule. But I cant think of many meals that are fat/carb only that are all that good for physique enhancment.

If you can give examples of some f/c meals that you think are good people can give their opinions.

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Its amazing how someone can be so lost with all of the good info on this site.

That routine is bad.

You literally have to unlearn all of the shit you think you know and restar from square 1

3 working sets? 3 working sets of your max for X reps? Really?? You are appraoching this completely backwards. [/quote]

Explain to to me what I’m doing wrong. Don’t just post and say shit like “that routine is bad”. How am I approaching this completely backwards? Not sure what you mean by X reps. I do max effort for the amount of reps I listed and 3 sets of it. (3 working sets by meaning that those are the sets I go all out on)

Take a note I’m not into body building. More into oly and power lifting. And don’t say shit like if your into those lifts why do you want abs?

I still want to look good.
[/quote]

The routine is bad for bodybuilding. You posted in the bodybuilding forum. If you dont bodybuild then fine. Carry on.

I also dont think any experienced powerlifters will suggest taking 3 sets with max weight, max effort or whatever you want to call it for each exercise. But Ill leave that for the guys with more epxerience to discuss.

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:

I get 3 days off in a row and this is my routine:

Everything has 3 working sets. (3 sets of doing my max for the amount of reps) All of these days are back to back.

BACK DAY:
Dead Lifts - Work up to a rep of 5
Weighted Pull Ups - Work up to a rep of 3
Barbell Rows - Work up to a rep of 5
Krock Rows - 1 or 2 sets of around 17 reps (depending on how high my reps are)

PUSH DAY:
Hang Clean and Jerks - Work up to a rep of 3
Barbell Shoulder Press (push press) - Work up to a rep of 5
Barbell Shrugs - 2 or 3 sets of 10-20 reps (as many as I can until I cant get the full rep)
Flat Bench - Work up to a rep of 5
Machine Dips - Usually 3x12 just because I screwed up my left front delt doing weighted dips a couple years ago. (was stupid and going down too far)

LEG DAY:
Front Plated Squats - 10-12 reps of holding 10 pounds out in front of me. (to stretch out the hips and to strengthen my lumber curve to be able to go all the way down into a front squat)
Barbell Step Ups - 20 reps usually. (10 on both legs)
Leg Press - 3 sets of 12

I was getting a knee pain when doing front squats. (wasn’t keeping the weight on my heels, it was more on the ball of my feet) My hips aren’t flexible either so it was putting more pressure on my knees. Thats why my leg days are lame right now.
[/quote]

^^^ That explains why you feel you can’t do anymore than 3 days lol, especially doing them all one day after the other - you must be knackered by the time legs come along? Even for many bodybuilders (natty), that’s kind of pushing it (3 intensive days in a row). For good strength gains, you’re far better off having 1-2 days off between ‘heavy’ days.

It also explains a lot when you say you’re more into strength training (whereby most training days are 3 or 4). Ideally, for good balanced overall physique development, it’s better to train at least 4 days/week (so you aren’t doing 2 hour long sessions or just neglecting muscle groups)

If it’s mainly strength you’re after, try ramping. You do just 1 top set instead of doing 3 ‘maximal’ effort sets; and by saving all your energy for this last set you’ll hit a higher load, and feel “fresher” (recovery will improve and strength gains will shoot through the roof from workout to workout). Ramping is basically adding weight each set until you reach your max (or close). You do something like 3-6 sets/exercise. Sets are low reps like 3-5…reps get lower the closer to the max you get, then you do as many reps as you can on your last set (e.g. 5-10 reps or whatever depending on exercise). For your accessory lifts (i.e. all lifts other than your main big 5 or so), you can do your normal straight sets which you have been doing (e.g. 3-4 sets, 6-10 reps or whatever for the exercise…basically a bit more volume)

For fat loss, if that’s all you’ve got to work with (3 days in a row?) then I’d recommend HIIT on 2-3 of your off days. With training only 3x/week, you should easily handle intensive cardio. Try hill sprints; sprint up a hill, walk down it. Sprint should last 10-20 secs. Session should last 10-25mins (start at lower end of volume, work your way up when fat loss halts). HIIT done before leg training’s not good, but you don’t have to worry about that with your routine.

I used to believe that P & C, P & F meal only bull shit for a while until I actually started dieting and realized it didn’t matter.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Its amazing how someone can be so lost with all of the good info on this site.

That routine is bad.

You literally have to unlearn all of the shit you think you know and restar from square 1

3 working sets? 3 working sets of your max for X reps? Really?? You are appraoching this completely backwards. [/quote]

Explain to to me what I’m doing wrong. Don’t just post and say shit like “that routine is bad”. How am I approaching this completely backwards? Not sure what you mean by X reps. I do max effort for the amount of reps I listed and 3 sets of it. (3 working sets by meaning that those are the sets I go all out on)

Take a note I’m not into body building. More into oly and power lifting. And don’t say shit like if your into those lifts why do you want abs?

I still want to look good.
[/quote]

The routine is bad for bodybuilding. You posted in the bodybuilding forum. If you dont bodybuild then fine. Carry on.

I also dont think any experienced powerlifters will suggest taking 3 sets with max weight, max effort or whatever you want to call it for each exercise. But Ill leave that for the guys with more epxerience to discuss. [/quote]

Oh alright cool, I posted it in here because you guys would know better ways to get my abs back.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:

I get 3 days off in a row and this is my routine:

Everything has 3 working sets. (3 sets of doing my max for the amount of reps) All of these days are back to back.

BACK DAY:
Dead Lifts - Work up to a rep of 5
Weighted Pull Ups - Work up to a rep of 3
Barbell Rows - Work up to a rep of 5
Krock Rows - 1 or 2 sets of around 17 reps (depending on how high my reps are)

PUSH DAY:
Hang Clean and Jerks - Work up to a rep of 3
Barbell Shoulder Press (push press) - Work up to a rep of 5
Barbell Shrugs - 2 or 3 sets of 10-20 reps (as many as I can until I cant get the full rep)
Flat Bench - Work up to a rep of 5
Machine Dips - Usually 3x12 just because I screwed up my left front delt doing weighted dips a couple years ago. (was stupid and going down too far)

LEG DAY:
Front Plated Squats - 10-12 reps of holding 10 pounds out in front of me. (to stretch out the hips and to strengthen my lumber curve to be able to go all the way down into a front squat)
Barbell Step Ups - 20 reps usually. (10 on both legs)
Leg Press - 3 sets of 12

I was getting a knee pain when doing front squats. (wasn’t keeping the weight on my heels, it was more on the ball of my feet) My hips aren’t flexible either so it was putting more pressure on my knees. Thats why my leg days are lame right now.
[/quote]

^^^ That explains why you feel you can’t do anymore than 3 days lol, especially doing them all one day after the other - you must be knackered by the time legs come along? Even for many bodybuilders (natty), that’s kind of pushing it (3 intensive days in a row). For good strength gains, you’re far better off having 1-2 days off between ‘heavy’ days.

It also explains a lot when you say you’re more into strength training (whereby most training days are 3 or 4). Ideally, for good balanced overall physique development, it’s better to train at least 4 days/week (so you aren’t doing 2 hour long sessions or just neglecting muscle groups)

If it’s mainly strength you’re after, try ramping. You do just 1 top set instead of doing 3 ‘maximal’ effort sets; and by saving all your energy for this last set you’ll hit a higher load, and feel “fresher” (recovery will improve and strength gains will shoot through the roof from workout to workout). Ramping is basically adding weight each set until you reach your max (or close). You do something like 3-6 sets/exercise. Sets are low reps like 3-5…reps get lower the closer to the max you get, then you do as many reps as you can on your last set (e.g. 5-10 reps or whatever depending on exercise). For your accessory lifts (i.e. all lifts other than your main big 5 or so), you can do your normal straight sets which you have been doing (e.g. 3-4 sets, 6-10 reps or whatever for the exercise…basically a bit more volume)

For fat loss, if that’s all you’ve got to work with (3 days in a row?) then I’d recommend HIIT on 2-3 of your off days. With training only 3x/week, you should easily handle intensive cardio. Try hill sprints; sprint up a hill, walk down it. Sprint should last 10-20 secs. Session should last 10-25mins (start at lower end of volume, work your way up when fat loss halts). HIIT done before leg training’s not good, but you don’t have to worry about that with your routine.[/quote]

Alright thanks man, I have only been working out on my off days of work which is these 3 days in a row. I’m going to try working out on the weekends before work. Its going to be hard to get into my sleep schedule and lifts will have to take place at around 10:00AM-11:00AM.

Or maybe ill start doing sprints in the mornings.

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:

A normal day of eating would look like:

(All sandwiches are on whole wheat)
(I have been drinking about a gallon of water everyday)

  1. Morning: 3 egg omelet with veggies and a glass of OJ
  2. Couple hours later: PB and J with glass of water
  3. Couple hours later: Bowl of oatmeal with whole milk and blue berries
  4. Couple hours later: PB and J with glass of water
  5. Lunch: Turkey sandwich with some jalapeno chips to chase it down, glass of water, little odwalla smoothie with an orange
  6. Couple hours later: PB and J
  7. Chicken, brown rice, and green beans, with a glass of whole milk
    [/quote]

If I were to still eat sandwiches just put eggs, turkey, chicken, tuna to replacing the peanut butter and jelly.

Would those be consider clean meals?

^^^ Dude, you really need to do some research. Go to the beginner forum and read the articles posted in the stickied threads.

Don’t be lazy.

There are great resources on this site.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
If you can give examples of some f/c meals that you think are good people can give their opinions. [/quote]

$4 drinks at starbucks
grilled cheese sandwiches
baked potato - fully loaded
chocolate
french fries
potato chips
corn chips
donuts

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I used to believe that P & C, P & F meal only bull shit for a while until I actually started dieting and realized it didn’t matter.[/quote]

Agreed

Once one finally gets serious enough to crunch the numbers (and stick to them), consistent fat loss becomes fairly straightforward

Probably going to change my routine to this: (its similar to the kingbeef guy’s routine)

I am still debating where I want Hang Cleans & Jerks and Dead Lifts because those two tend to drain the rest of my workouts on that day.

CHEST:
Incline Dumbbell - 3x4-6
Flat Bench - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Skull Crushers - 2x4-6

BACK:
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Weighted Pull Ups - 2x4-6
Krock Rows - 1x20-40
Bicep Barbell Curl - 2x4-6

SHOULDERS:
Hang Clean and Jerk - 3x3
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Dumbbell Laterals - 2x6-8
Rear Delts - 2x20-40

LEGS:
Dead Lift - 3x5
Back Squats - 3x6-12
Leg Press - 2x6-10
Step Ups - 2x20

Going to fit in hill sprints in the mornings. Probably on my off days, 2 days out of the week.

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:
Probably going to change my routine to this: (its similar to the kingbeef guy’s routine)

I am still debating where I want Hang Cleans & Jerks and Dead Lifts because those two tend to drain the rest of my workouts on that day.

CHEST:
Incline Dumbbell - 3x4-6
Flat Bench - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Skull Crushers - 2x4-6

BACK:
Dead Lift - 3x5
Weighted Pull Ups - 2x4-6
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Krock Rows - 1x20-40
Bicep Barbell Curl - 2x4-6

SHOULDERS:
Hang Clean and Jerk - 3x3
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Dumbbell Laterals - 2x6-8
Rear Delts - 2x20-40

LEGS:
Back Squats - 3x6-12
Leg Press - 2x6-10
Step Ups - 2x20

Going to fit in hill sprints in the mornings. Probably on my off days, 2 days out of the week.

[/quote]

Looks good enough to me. Possible variation could be putting deadlift on leg day (so that your nervous system is fresher…i.e. more rest days between the heavy moves).

Is there any reason why you really want the clean and jerk in there? What’s your goal for having that in there? Those sort of Olympic movements don’t leave many muscles un-worked, so it is difficult fitting them in a split routine that’s not prioritising them. If it’s just in there as a hobby type thing, then fine if you don’t over-do them (and you use proper technique).

As for deadlifts, for bodybuilding they are often left towards the end of the workout so long as not too many exercises are done (body is more “switched on” by this point, and target muscles are worked more rather than neglected because of weak links or nervous system fatigue). So the order of your exercises would go something like, Rows, pullups then deadlifts. No need to do kroc rows and barbel rows in same workout IMO (do one or the other…or swap one out when it stalls).

There’s also a good chance your squat form is shit if your knees and hips are hurting.

I would recommend posting a video and asking one of these guys to critique your form.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:
Probably going to change my routine to this: (its similar to the kingbeef guy’s routine)

I am still debating where I want Hang Cleans & Jerks and Dead Lifts because those two tend to drain the rest of my workouts on that day.

CHEST:
Incline Dumbbell - 3x4-6
Flat Bench - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Skull Crushers - 2x4-6

BACK:
Dead Lift - 3x5
Weighted Pull Ups - 2x4-6
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Krock Rows - 1x20-40
Bicep Barbell Curl - 2x4-6

SHOULDERS:
Hang Clean and Jerk - 3x3
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Dumbbell Laterals - 2x6-8
Rear Delts - 2x20-40

LEGS:
Back Squats - 3x6-12
Leg Press - 2x6-10
Step Ups - 2x20

Going to fit in hill sprints in the mornings. Probably on my off days, 2 days out of the week.

[/quote]

Looks good enough to me. Possible variation could be putting deadlift on leg day (so that your nervous system is fresher…i.e. more rest days between the heavy moves).

Is there any reason why you really want the clean and jerk in there? What’s your goal for having that in there? Those sort of Olympic movements don’t leave many muscles un-worked, so it is difficult fitting them in a split routine that’s not prioritising them. If it’s just in there as a hobby type thing, then fine if you don’t over-do them (and you use proper technique).

As for deadlifts, for bodybuilding they are often left towards the end of the workout so long as not too many exercises are done (body is more “switched on” by this point, and target muscles are worked more rather than neglected because of weak links or nervous system fatigue). So the order of your exercises would go something like, Rows, pullups then deadlifts. No need to do kroc rows and barbel rows in same workout IMO (do one or the other…or swap one out when it stalls).[/quote]

Yeah hang clean and jerk is pretty much just a hobby lift cause its my favorite. I like how the lift is all about speed and technique. I tend to like explosive lifts.

I’m probably going to throw the dead lifts on my leg day just because right now its such a weak day for me. This will also help me on my shoulder days because in the pull clean motion you use a lot of lower back. And like I mention before I will have more energy for the rest of my back day.

And you have any suggestions if I were to replace the krock row with another exercise?

UPDATE:

CHEST:
Incline Dumbbell - 3x4-6
Flat Bench - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Skull Crushers - 2x4-6

BACK:
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Weighted Pull Ups - 2x4-6
Krock Rows - 1x20-40
Bicep Barbell Curl - 2x4-6

SHOULDERS:
Hang Clean and Jerk - 3x3
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Dumbbell Laterals - 2x6-8
Rear Delts - 2x20-40
Dumbbell Shrugs - 3x6-8

LEGS:
Dead Lift - 3x5
Leg Press - 2x6-10
Step Ups - 2x20

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:
Yeah hang clean and jerk is pretty much just a hobby lift cause its my favorite. I like how the lift is all about speed and technique. I tend to like explosive lifts.

I’m probably going to throw the dead lifts on my leg day just because right now its such a weak day for me. This will also help me on my shoulder days because in the pull clean motion you use a lot of lower back. And like I mention before I will have more energy for the rest of my back day.

And you have any suggestions if I were to replace the krock row with another exercise?

[/quote]

Routine looks good.

If I were you, I’d probably do seated rows (to the armpits, hands over) for your 3rd back exercise. Think of this as more of a controlled/longer TUT exercise where you hold the contraction…not an exercise like kroc rows where some “cheating” is used to move really heavy loads. These are good for rhomboids (helps you keep tucked/good posture…which again can help your pressing moves etc).

There are many options for your heavy rows (e.g. one arm t-bar rows, barbel rows, kroc rows etc). Simply switch them out if one stagnates for some time (as long as it’s not just your diet/over-all fatigue).

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Natebrochill wrote:
Yeah hang clean and jerk is pretty much just a hobby lift cause its my favorite. I like how the lift is all about speed and technique. I tend to like explosive lifts.

I’m probably going to throw the dead lifts on my leg day just because right now its such a weak day for me. This will also help me on my shoulder days because in the pull clean motion you use a lot of lower back. And like I mention before I will have more energy for the rest of my back day.

And you have any suggestions if I were to replace the krock row with another exercise?

[/quote]

Routine looks good.

If I were you, I’d probably do seated rows (to the armpits, hands over) for your 3rd back exercise. Think of this as more of a controlled/longer TUT exercise where you hold the contraction…not an exercise like kroc rows where some “cheating” is used to move really heavy loads. These are good for rhomboids (helps you keep tucked/good posture…which again can help your pressing moves etc).

There are many options for your heavy rows (e.g. one arm t-bar rows, barbel rows, kroc rows etc). Simply switch them out if one stagnates for some time (as long as it’s not just your diet/over-all fatigue).[/quote]

Alright cool thanks man. Kinda stoked to do some chest days again haha. Haven’t done much dumbbell work for a couple of months.

Was just looking at my routine and I almost forgot shrugs.