T Nation

How to Develop a Better Adonis Belt?


#1


I have a 27 inch waist and my hip bones are slightly wider, I don't like this look very much and to develop the muscles around the waist to get a v-cut abdominal shape. I am currently on Starting Strength (I am 5'10 150 lbs), and my squat is 225 x 5, and my deadlift is 245 x 5. I heard that the lower abs fill out doing squats and deadlifts, but there is no visible difference in my lower ab development even though these lifts are going up.


#2

Great abs are a byproduct of diet. Squatting and deadlifting isnt going to “target the low abs” if anything its going to target your whole midsection if done properly. Just don’t worry about that right now and focus on building muscle.


#3

[quote]EpsilonZeta wrote:
I don’t like this look very much and to develop the muscles around the waist to get a v-cut abdominal shape. I am currently on Starting Strength[/quote]
A skinny guy wanting better-developed abs is the absolute opposite of what Starting Strength was designed for. Your training doesn’t match your goal, so you’re already off on the wrong foot.

In your training log yesterday, you wrote:

[quote]Goals on this Program

Squat: 315 x 5
Bench: 225 x 5
Deadlift: 405 x 5
Bent over rows: 185 x 5
Cleans: 185 x 5[/quote]

Those are totally appropriate goals for Starting Strength. I suggest you go full throttle towards hitting those numbers while increasing your muscular bodyweight at least 15-20 pounds along the way. In 4-6 months, check your progress and then consider going for better abs.

Whoever told you that should have their tongue removed with dull scissors. Squats and deadlifts build strength and contribute to total body muscle, but in no way will they “make the lower abs fill out.”

[quote](I am 5’10 150 lbs), and my squat is 225 x 5, and my deadlift is 245 x 5.
[…] there is no visible difference in my lower ab development even though these lifts are going up.[/quote]
Um, you were squatting 225x5 in the beginning of December, and you were sort of doing Starting Strength then too.


What’s the deal?

In the last five, almost six, months, how much bodyweight have you gained?


#4

If you posted that picture to suggest that’s what you want to look like, then you will have to get MUCH bigger, and, eventually, MUCH leaner. It can certainly happen, but to look like the guy in the picture, I’m going to say you need 50 more lbs of muscle, and 20 lbs less of fat. I honestly don’t even need to see a picture of you, your lifts, bodyweight, and height are sufficient info. Basically I’m suggesting an ultra-ripped 180 lbs physique at your height.

Build the muscle first. You won’t meet your goals if you concern yourself with getting THAT lean now.


#5

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
If you posted that picture to suggest that’s what you want to look like, then you will have to get MUCH bigger, and, eventually, MUCH leaner. It can certainly happen, but to look like the guy in the picture, I’m going to say you need 50 more lbs of muscle, and 20 lbs less of fat. I honestly don’t even need to see a picture of you, your lifts, bodyweight, and height are sufficient info. Basically I’m suggesting an ultra-ripped 180 lbs physique at your height.

Build the muscle first. You won’t meet your goals if you concern yourself with getting THAT lean now.[/quote]

Don’t you mean 30 lbs more of muscle? I am very lean at 150 right now, 150 + 30 = 180 lbs. I want to look like that by the summer of 2018. I never cut because of my metabolism, I just eat a lot and weight train and it all goes to muscle, but very slowly.


#6

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]EpsilonZeta wrote:
I don’t like this look very much and to develop the muscles around the waist to get a v-cut abdominal shape. I am currently on Starting Strength[/quote]
A skinny guy wanting better-developed abs is the absolute opposite of what Starting Strength was designed for. Your training doesn’t match your goal, so you’re already off on the wrong foot.

In your training log yesterday, you wrote:

[quote]Goals on this Program

Squat: 315 x 5
Bench: 225 x 5
Deadlift: 405 x 5
Bent over rows: 185 x 5
Cleans: 185 x 5[/quote]

Those are totally appropriate goals for Starting Strength. I suggest you go full throttle towards hitting those numbers while increasing your muscular bodyweight at least 15-20 pounds along the way. In 4-6 months, check your progress and then consider going for better abs.

Whoever told you that should have their tongue removed with dull scissors. Squats and deadlifts build strength and contribute to total body muscle, but in no way will they “make the lower abs fill out.”

[quote](I am 5’10 150 lbs), and my squat is 225 x 5, and my deadlift is 245 x 5.
[…] there is no visible difference in my lower ab development even though these lifts are going up.[/quote]
Um, you were squatting 225x5 in the beginning of December, and you were sort of doing Starting Strength then too.


What’s the deal?

In the last five, almost six, months, how much bodyweight have you gained?[/quote]

I have gained about 5 lbs of body weight and maybe lost 1 % BF.


#7

[quote]EpsilonZeta wrote:
I have gained about 5 lbs of body weight and maybe lost 1 % BF.[/quote]

In 6 months on Starting Strength? You are either doing the wrong program for your goals or eating the wrong diet for your program.


#8

[quote]EpsilonZeta wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
If you posted that picture to suggest that’s what you want to look like, then you will have to get MUCH bigger, and, eventually, MUCH leaner. It can certainly happen, but to look like the guy in the picture, I’m going to say you need 50 more lbs of muscle, and 20 lbs less of fat. I honestly don’t even need to see a picture of you, your lifts, bodyweight, and height are sufficient info. Basically I’m suggesting an ultra-ripped 180 lbs physique at your height.

Build the muscle first. You won’t meet your goals if you concern yourself with getting THAT lean now.[/quote]

Don’t you mean 30 lbs more of muscle? I am very lean at 150 right now, 150 + 30 = 180 lbs. I want to look like that by the summer of 2018. I never cut because of my metabolism, I just eat a lot and weight train and it all goes to muscle, but very slowly.
[/quote]

I meant exactly what I said. The guy in the picture is a very, very low bf%. Unless you can show me a picture of yourself at that level of leanness, I have to assume you’d need to drop fat to reach that point. Are you leaner than me in my picture here? I would likely have to drop 10-15 lbs to be as lean as the guy in the picture.


#9

You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.


#10

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.


#11

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.[/quote]

I second this.

The assumption that everyone starts with decent form, mobility and an athletic background seems to be too common on this site.


#12

Actually Flip is right

You are 150 lbs and probably at 10%. Which would give you 135 lbs of muscle and 15 lbs of fat.

If you gained 50 lbs of muscle that would be 185 lbs of muscle and if you didnt gain any fat that would 15 lbs of fat. So you would be 200 lbs with about 6-8% and this guy might be even leanier than that.

You need to lift weights and gain some damn size already and quit making excuses. You need to fill in to get a better v


#13

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.[/quote]

I second this.

The assumption that everyone starts with decent form, mobility and an athletic background seems to be too common on this site.[/quote]

Hmmm. I don’t know, for a male under 40 years old without significant injuries, I think my point stands. I’m training a friend now with no athletic background, skinny-fat, very untrained, 165lbs BW and he started at 85 lbs with his squat and added 10 lbs per workout for the first 10 or 12 workouts straight. And that was with very sub-optimal nutrition and only 1-2 lbs weight gain. Now we’ve fixed his nutrition and I expect him to add 5lbs / workout for several months in a row.

Obviously results will vary per individual but I think it’s setting the bar far too low (pun intended) to say 225x5 is fine for a healthy adult male after months squatting, and Rippetoe has made this same point.

Honestly, I think a major factor is that a lot of guys just don’t care / work hard / train properly when it comes to squatting. The perception of a “strong” squat in a typical commercial gym is totally out of whack vs say, a strong bench press. 225x5 is probably more than a lot of guys – even guys in decent shape – are squatting, but that doesn’t change my point. A trainer at an Equinox in a major city came up to me recently after I squatted 315x5 (as a WARMUP) and complimented me saying something like “you don’t usually see people squatting that much, around here” and I didn’t want to be rude so I just nodded, but I almost said: “REALLY? 315 for 5??” There are plenty of guys walking around that gym with a lot more muscle mass than me… if they can’t squat 315x5, it’s because they don’t want to do the work, plain and simple.

/end rant


#14

If you have a true 27 inch waist (POIDH) and you’re weight training with the big lifts then I dont see how you wouldn’t have a pretty damn impressive midsection already??
If thats really the case then, yeah, all you need to do is add some direct lower ab moves


#15

How did you get a picture of Yogi’s midsection?


#16

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
If you have a true 27 inch waist (POIDH) and you’re weight training with the big lifts then I dont see how you wouldn’t have a pretty damn impressive midsection already??
If thats really the case then, yeah, all you need to do is add some direct lower ab moves[/quote]

Waist size is also dependant on bone structure and bodyfat distribution. I am 5’9 without shoes and have a 28 inch waist @180lbs but I’m not as lean as the guy in the pic.


#17

[quote]dt79 wrote:
How did you get a picture of Yogi’s midsection?[/quote]

LOL!

Give me some hardening drugs, diuretics and the appropriate instagram filter and you never know…


#18

[quote]craze9 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.[/quote]

I second this.

The assumption that everyone starts with decent form, mobility and an athletic background seems to be too common on this site.[/quote]

Hmmm. I don’t know, for a male under 40 years old without significant injuries, I think my point stands. I’m training a friend now with no athletic background, skinny-fat, very untrained, 165lbs BW and he started at 85 lbs with his squat and added 10 lbs per workout for the first 10 or 12 workouts straight. And that was with very sub-optimal nutrition and only 1-2 lbs weight gain. Now we’ve fixed his nutrition and I expect him to add 5lbs / workout for several months in a row.

Obviously results will vary per individual but I think it’s setting the bar far too low (pun intended) to say 225x5 is fine for a healthy adult male after months squatting, and Rippetoe has made this same point.

Honestly, I think a major factor is that a lot of guys just don’t care / work hard / train properly when it comes to squatting. The perception of a “strong” squat in a typical commercial gym is totally out of whack vs say, a strong bench press. 225x5 is probably more than a lot of guys – even guys in decent shape – are squatting, but that doesn’t change my point. A trainer at an Equinox in a major city came up to me recently after I squatted 315x5 (as a WARMUP) and complimented me saying something like “you don’t usually see people squatting that much, around here” and I didn’t want to be rude so I just nodded, but I almost said: “REALLY? 315 for 5??” There are plenty of guys walking around that gym with a lot more muscle mass than me… if they can’t squat 315x5, it’s because they don’t want to do the work, plain and simple.

/end rant
[/quote]

I feel we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I personally feel that a beginner squatting 225x5 after only a few months training is perfectly acceptable progress.


#19

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.[/quote]

I second this.

The assumption that everyone starts with decent form, mobility and an athletic background seems to be too common on this site.[/quote]

Hmmm. I don’t know, for a male under 40 years old without significant injuries, I think my point stands. I’m training a friend now with no athletic background, skinny-fat, very untrained, 165lbs BW and he started at 85 lbs with his squat and added 10 lbs per workout for the first 10 or 12 workouts straight. And that was with very sub-optimal nutrition and only 1-2 lbs weight gain. Now we’ve fixed his nutrition and I expect him to add 5lbs / workout for several months in a row.

Obviously results will vary per individual but I think it’s setting the bar far too low (pun intended) to say 225x5 is fine for a healthy adult male after months squatting, and Rippetoe has made this same point.

Honestly, I think a major factor is that a lot of guys just don’t care / work hard / train properly when it comes to squatting. The perception of a “strong” squat in a typical commercial gym is totally out of whack vs say, a strong bench press. 225x5 is probably more than a lot of guys – even guys in decent shape – are squatting, but that doesn’t change my point. A trainer at an Equinox in a major city came up to me recently after I squatted 315x5 (as a WARMUP) and complimented me saying something like “you don’t usually see people squatting that much, around here” and I didn’t want to be rude so I just nodded, but I almost said: “REALLY? 315 for 5??” There are plenty of guys walking around that gym with a lot more muscle mass than me… if they can’t squat 315x5, it’s because they don’t want to do the work, plain and simple.

/end rant
[/quote]

I feel we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I personally feel that a beginner squatting 225x5 after only a few months training is perfectly acceptable progress.[/quote]

Well, I would agree with that. It is perfectly acceptable. It’s actually better than the vast majority of beginner lifters, so yes, acceptable.

But it does depend how many months we’re talking, 3 or 6 or 9. And if the beginner is doing Starting Strength, which is designed around rapid increases in the barbell lifts driven by weight gain. I’ll bet I could get my 64-year-old father who has never lifted in his life squatting 225x5 after 6 months in the gym (probably far less than 6 months).

The larger point is that people tend to seriously underestimate what they are capable of squatting, with proper training. Plenty of guys bench more than or close to what they squat, which, given the amount of muscle mass involved in the movements, is just silly.


#20

[quote]craze9 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You are weak, dude. Starting Strength is an effective program if done right, which means eating to fuel progression. 225x5 Squat after multiple months is not good – Rippetoe would say YNDTP.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with that. It really depends on starting point, doesn’t it? It can take some people a couple months just to learn to properly squat a broom stick.[/quote]

I second this.

The assumption that everyone starts with decent form, mobility and an athletic background seems to be too common on this site.[/quote]

Hmmm. I don’t know, for a male under 40 years old without significant injuries, I think my point stands. I’m training a friend now with no athletic background, skinny-fat, very untrained, 165lbs BW and he started at 85 lbs with his squat and added 10 lbs per workout for the first 10 or 12 workouts straight. And that was with very sub-optimal nutrition and only 1-2 lbs weight gain. Now we’ve fixed his nutrition and I expect him to add 5lbs / workout for several months in a row.
[/quote]

When I started lifting, I weighed 125 lbs, 40 lbs less than your friend. I’m 5’10. I had zero injuries in my past. I was just very small, although not completely unathletic. I played golf and tennis in high school, and baseball until I was 15. It took me a year to reach 165lbs BW. When you start out very, very small/weak, progress can be slow-going initially, because there are so few things in the weight room you can actually do.

I couldn’t do a broomstick squat with any sort of reasonable form when I started. There was no way in hell I could have done what your friend did, starting at 85 lbs. 85 would have stapled me. I remember being stapled the first time I tried to squat 135, in fact.