T Nation

How to Aspirate my Own Bone Marrow?


#1

I am afflicted with the unusual condition of having early-stage degenerative arthritis in nearly every synovial joint in my body, apparently sparing only the facet joints of my spine. I do not have rheumatoid arthritis or any other systemic condition that would normally be associated with body-wide symptoms, and blood tests have confirmed this.

Additionally, my condition is not genetic or congenital; I acquired it nine years ago as a result of a specific cause that I'm certain of. While still in its early stages and only mildly symptomatic in any one joint, cumulatively is quite painful and has caused significant hardship by cutting me off from my preferred work options and lifestyle.

In the last few years, a small, but significant body of research has demonstrated that intra-articular injections of autologous mesenchymal stems cells (MSCs) can regenerate osteoarthritic articular cartilage, reversing the course of the disease. This process involves aspirating bone marrow, isolating and expanding the MSCs in the lab, and then injecting the cells into the patient's joint.

This could be a "holy grail" for me...if I could access it on the scale I need it on. If I could use this therapy successfully in just the joints of my upper body, that would be good enough to radically improve my quality of life.

The main complication is the fact that I have so many joints involved. This poses two problems: 1) cost, and 2) the need to aspirate enough bone marrow to address all of the joints. Currently, it costs about $5000 to get stem cell therapy for a single joint pair (i.e. both knees) at any of the clinics that are rapidly popping up to offer this treatment.

The only way to overcome problem #2, obtaining enough stem cells from bone marrow, is to expand them in culture. Tragically, the FDA made it illegal to do this (commercially at least) in 2012 when it won a landmark lawsuit alleging that a patient's "adulterated" autologous stem cells constitute "drugs" that are subject to FDA regulation, completely putting the brakes on the development of this urgently needed technology.

So anyway, what all this gives rise to the need for me to administer the treatment to myself. That is, I've got to aspirate my own bone marrow, treat in vitro to isolate the desired cells, and inject the final product into my own joints. All of this, including cultivating my own "drugs" (i.e. stem cells), is completely legal. It's just going to be extraordinarily difficult.

Of these undertakings, I project that the most difficult will be aspirating my own bone marrow. Normally, this is taken from the posterior iliac crest, which would be extremely difficult for me to reach, and which I would have to do blindly or with the use of cameras. Alternative sites would be the sternum and ribsâ??highly undesirable due to the risk of puncturing vital organsâ??and the tibial plateau, which while much easier to reach, I understand that the marrow from this area contains fewer cells, and thus may not be useful for my purposes. So figuring out for to get my own bone marrow is issue #1.

Cultivating the cells, although it requires expensive equipment, is the easy part. Apparently all the needed materials can be ordered online, and there are many scholarly materials containing of clearly written instructions. I am confident that I can pull this part off.

Major problem #2 will be injecting the final product into my joints. For certain joints, such as the hips, this would simply be impossible for me to do on my own; I would need to pay to have a professional do it. But for most sites, it should theoretically be possible for me to do it on my own. In general, what I don't get is how the hell a clinician guides a needle into a joint capsule without striking the the articular surface with the tip.

I would be sincerely interested in hearing any thoughts on the foregoing discussion. All this is 100% dead serious. Thanks in advance.


#2

http://www.novastem.mx/

Have you considered a foreign clinic?

If you still want to aspirate your own stem cells, I’d use this: http://www.amazon.com/GrillPro-14950-Marinade-Injector/dp/B001HUQKUG

I’ve used it myself - albeit for a different purpose - and it works beautifully. Dishwasher safe, too.


#3

Briks, Is this ‘specific cause’ something related to that knee surgery you had around that time? Can you elaborate, I’m curious.

On point, I’m like minded with Doc in that I think you should be looking for help from abroad. South Korea or something like that. I’m sure you’ve researched this in depth but it seems to me something so system wide would need to be treated system wide. Can’t you get some South Korean mad scientist to cultivate massive amounts of stem cells then inject them into your blood stream twice a week for ten weeks or something like that?


#4

And how exactly are you going to culture your MSCs without contamination? You have a sterile hood? And what about an incubator to grow the cells in? I have a extensive experience growing embryonic stem cells and can ensure you, you are an idiot if you actually try to do this yourself.


#5

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
And how exactly are you going to culture your MSCs without contamination? You have a sterile hood? And what about an incubator to grow the cells in? I have a extensive experience growing embryonic stem cells and can ensure you, you are an idiot if you actually try to do this yourself.

[/quote]

I think you need to be more supportive of this fellow T member who has come here seeking our help.

I’m sure a kitchen hood and oven will do just fine. And he should take many pics and report back early and often.


#6

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
And how exactly are you going to culture your MSCs without contamination? You have a sterile hood? And what about an incubator to grow the cells in? I have a extensive experience growing embryonic stem cells and can ensure you, you are an idiot if you actually try to do this yourself.

[/quote]

I think you need to be more supportive of this fellow T member who has come here seeking our help.
[/quote]

Heck yeah you should be more supportive of him Relentless. This could be your opportunity to pocket 50 to 100 grand under the table.


#7

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
And how exactly are you going to culture your MSCs without contamination? You have a sterile hood? And what about an incubator to grow the cells in? I have a extensive experience growing embryonic stem cells and can ensure you, you are an idiot if you actually try to do this yourself.

[/quote]

I’ve looked into it and the necessary equipment would cost a few thousand dollars, which is a fuck of a lot less than what treating 40 joint pairs at $5000 a pop would run.


#8

[quote]on edge wrote:
Briks, Is this ‘specific cause’ something related to that knee surgery you had around that time? Can you elaborate, I’m curious.

On point, I’m like minded with Doc in that I think you should be looking for help from abroad. South Korea or something like that. I’m sure you’ve researched this in depth but it seems to me something so system wide would need to be treated system wide. Can’t you get some South Korean mad scientist to cultivate massive amounts of stem cells then inject them into your blood stream twice a week for ten weeks or something like that?[/quote]

In the most general terms possible, the cause was a prolonged period of severe inactivity interrupted by sudden exposure to high-force activity. Weakened from several months of disuse, the cartilage in my joints was permanently damaged by actions that would normally have been easily tolerable. A period of gradual re-introduction to activity would have prevented it.

The foreign clinics can expand the cells in vitro, but at a very high cost, not counting travel expenses. MSCs can only be multiplied so many times from a single sample of bone marrows, so many trips would be required.


#9

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
And how exactly are you going to culture your MSCs without contamination? You have a sterile hood? And what about an incubator to grow the cells in? I have a extensive experience growing embryonic stem cells and can ensure you, you are an idiot if you actually try to do this yourself.

[/quote]

I have some experience growing cells (not stem cells) and I agree with that. It’s not that complicated but you can’t do it on your own.

You would have to find the right people.


#10

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:

Additionally, my condition is not genetic or congenital; I acquired it nine years ago as a result of a specific cause that I’m certain of.
[/quote]

I would be interested to know what you think caused it.


#11

It’s firm knowledge, not theory.


#12

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
It’s firm knowledge, not theory.[/quote]

What is it?


#13

Wow you are really planning on pulling your own bone marrow ? Shit sound serious. I have problem injecting my own tendons due to extreme pain levels but this bone marrow thing is on a whole entire different level of agony.

I have went through prolo 3 times and it was the worst pain in my life.
You can find a lot of useful info on how to inject specific areas and joints by researching prolotherapy or prp. They have youtube videos and everything showing actual injection procedures. I am sure there have to be some specific documentation in the deep web providing instructions on how to do it also. I was unable to find it in a search engine tho, but those are very much censored for everyday family friendly search.
One thing you could try is finding a prolo technician or student to inject you with your supplied product.

Even if you decided to do the injections yourself you wouldn’t be able to handle the pain so if you want quality injections get someone to do it for you. They wont be feeling the pain while injecting thus the quality will be a lot greater.


#14

[quote]jackal87 wrote:
Wow you are really planning on pulling your own bone marrow ? Shit sound serious. I have problem injecting my own tendons due to extreme pain levels but this bone marrow thing is on a whole entire different level of agony.

I have went through prolo 3 times and it was the worst pain in my life.
You can find a lot of useful info on how to inject specific areas and joints by researching prolotherapy or prp. They have youtube videos and everything showing actual injection procedures. I am sure there have to be some specific documentation in the deep web providing instructions on how to do it also. I was unable to find it in a search engine tho, but those are very much censored for everyday family friendly search.
One thing you could try is finding a prolo technician or student to inject you with your supplied product.

Even if you decided to do the injections yourself you wouldn’t be able to handle the pain so if you want quality injections get someone to do it for you. They wont be feeling the pain while injecting thus the quality will be a lot greater.[/quote]

Did they anesthetize the aspiration site when they did your bone marrow thing?


#15

[quote]belligerent wrote:

[quote]jackal87 wrote:
Wow you are really planning on pulling your own bone marrow ? Shit sound serious. I have problem injecting my own tendons due to extreme pain levels but this bone marrow thing is on a whole entire different level of agony.

I have went through prolo 3 times and it was the worst pain in my life.
You can find a lot of useful info on how to inject specific areas and joints by researching prolotherapy or prp. They have youtube videos and everything showing actual injection procedures. I am sure there have to be some specific documentation in the deep web providing instructions on how to do it also. I was unable to find it in a search engine tho, but those are very much censored for everyday family friendly search.
One thing you could try is finding a prolo technician or student to inject you with your supplied product.

Even if you decided to do the injections yourself you wouldn’t be able to handle the pain so if you want quality injections get someone to do it for you. They wont be feeling the pain while injecting thus the quality will be a lot greater.[/quote]

Did they anesthetize the aspiration site when they did your bone marrow thing?
[/quote]

I have never had bone marrow pulled. I had prolotherapy which is injected into the tendons of a specific joint. It is painful as fuck due to the amount of injections (35-50) per treatment and the forceful technique that it takes to pierce a tendon. They only use some cream anesthetic which doesn’t really do much past the skin layer.


#16

Am I the only one who sees this thread as a prime example for the benefits of affordable health care? I mean, a DIY approach to bone marrow extraction - WTF?


#17

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Am I the only one who sees this thread as a prime example for the benefits of affordable health care? I mean, a DIY approach to bone marrow extraction - WTF?[/quote]

Of course you could also see it as a benefit of affordable internet and access to knowledge and ideas. Just 50 years ago, only a select few even knew enough to remotely think about this, nevermind actually being able to examine the various approaches, ideas, risks, etc. and research those in a fair amount of detail.

I wouldn’t do it myself, but I think it’s kind of cool that the opportunity exists for some. Reality still does a good job vetting the good and bad ideas.


#18

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Am I the only one who sees this thread as a prime example for the benefits of affordable health care? I mean, a DIY approach to bone marrow extraction - WTF?[/quote]

The reason it’s unaffordable is solely because the FDA has effectively banned it by declaring that stem cells are “drugs” subject to regulation. Prior to 2012, the treatment was available in the U.S for half of what it now costs to get it offshore. Government kills.