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How This Natural Stack for Muscle?

How is this natural stack? I am currently 98KG from 80KG, looking to keep bulking until I reach 110KG.

Creatine 5g
Phosphatidic Acid 750MG
Laxogenin 100MG

What about adding beta alanine to stack?

You’re gonna need calories more than supplements.

What’s your training and nutrition plan?

How tall are you and what’s your current general bodyfat?

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Thank you for your reply.

I am 6’0, I don’t know about bodyfat but I have gained a good amount of muscle over the past year. I would like to be 120-130KG at my height.

I have five meals a day, oats, whey protein, tuna, Atlantic cod, milk, cheese, rice, potatoes.

I wrote this program from the Weider Bodybuilding Training System Tapes but I changed some of the rep ranges for the compounds as the tapes recommend 4x10 for compounds, I also added some strongman exercises for training the grip.

Chest, Shoulders and Triceps
Bench Press 5x5
Incline Dumbbell Press 2x20
Cable Crossover 4x10
Shoulder Press 4x10
Lateral Raises 3x20
Straight Bar Cable Pulldown 2x20
Triceps Extensions 2x20
Skullcrushers 2x20

Back and Biceps
Barbell Back Row 4x10
Chins 8x5
Farmer’s Carry 3x100m
Back Shrugs 4x20
Rear Delt Fly 4x20
Reverse Pec-Deck Fly 4x10
Preacher Curl 4x10
Cable Curl 4x10

Squat 3x5
Leg Press 4x10
Leg Extensions 2x20
Calf Raise 4x50
Deadlift 3x5
Leg Press 4x10
Stiff-Legged Deadlift 2x20
Calf Raise 4x50

Too long, didnt read


Lotta volume. Up your food calories first.

I agree. You should definitely focus on nutrition.

I was going to be a smartass and suggest you need a different type of stack if you plan to go with that routine (guess I just said it anyway so am still a smartass). I would strongly suggest paring things way down. Why so much volume? WEIDER. What’s your planned intensity level going to be for all of this? There’s no way you can keep up with that much volume along with any effective amount of intensity.

Or better yet, give this program a shot for a month and see how you do. There’s no better way to learn than to try it for yourself. I was going to attempt totaling up sets per bodypart per week to make a point but it’s honestly a bit daunting looking through all that and don’t have the time. As Chris said above, your focus should be on calories over anything else if strictly interested in gaining weight.

Love handles? Man boobs? 4-pack abs? The number itself isn’t important. Just an approximation to see if it’s a smart decision to pack on another 25+ pounds of size.

Really though, the fact that you spent a whole 16 words generalizing your diet and 320+ words going into eye-crossing detail about your training makes me think your priorities are out of whack.

The training seems overcomplicated (and I don’t know why/how there’s a delt workout and shoulder workout), but I only wanted to make sure it was actually optimized for size and not a plan that prioritized strength. Phosphatidic acid works best when your training is more “bodybuilding-style” in terms of intensity, so you should be fine on that front.

Can you explain, in your own words, what laxogenin is and how it’s supposed to help you build muscle?

Beta-alanine does not build muscle. It helps with training, particularly endurance and recovery. Adding it to the stack certainly won’t hurt, but it won’t directly build more muscle. Make sure you’ve got workout nutrition covered, first and foremost. Without protein and carbs, you’re no-go on the growing.

Getting to 120kg+ at 6’0 means either you’re going to be carrying plenty of bodyfat and/or you’ll need steroids. Simple facts. Are you okay with either of those in order to reach your goal?

This is very much beside the point, but the only thing close to a “strongman exercise” I saw was farmer’s carries for very long distances. Is that what you meant? You should probably stick to a pre-designed program, because yours is kinda all over the place.

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I second this. 130kgs at 6’0" is ridiculously large… you’re either going to be fat or you have years of AAS use in your future. We’re pretty cool with the latter so don’t worry if that’s the case. Just be honest with yourself and set your expectations accordingly.


Damn exactly what I was thinking.

Thank you for the response.

I would say I am not shredded at the moment but not fat either, I can see the outline of my abdominal muscles. My chest size was 48 inches and my biceps size at 18 inches last time I checked.

Joe Weider’s Bodybuilding Training System Tapes

I would like to achieve the type of physique similar to the bodybuilders from the Joe Weider’s Bodybuilding Training System Tapes, do you think this is possible naturally? The Joe Weider Bodybuilding Training System Tapes recommend four exercises per body part at 4x10.

I read that the natural optimized frequency for each body part is to do delts and calves four times a week, back and triceps three times a week and legs and chest twice a week.


Absolutely not. You can look badass and jacked naturally, but it’s not going to be anywhere near 260+ pounds. At 6-feet, look to more old school bodybuilders along the lines of Steve Reeves (though he may or may not have been natural) or Reg Park (though he was almost definitely not natural, but using relatively modest doses).

If you want to stay natural, there are basically no Joe Weider-approved IFBB pro bodybuilders you can hope to look like. At your current bodyweight, you’re already pushing the limits of quality size for a natural lifter, so it’s going to be more about recomposition (losing fat and building muscle), compared to simply getting larger and weighing more.

In this article? https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-training-split-youve-never-tried
That’s fine, but it doesn’t mesh with the Weider Tape workouts. You can’t just smash two things together and hope for the best. Follow one or the other instead of trying to blend them both.

(Everybody notice we’re still not talking diet? Ok, just checking.)

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Also, I hate the word “stack” to describe over the counter dietary supplements.

Just some scam shit supplement companies to use to stylize their products with steroid verbage

You’re not “Stacking your protein with BCAAs and creatine”, you’re taking creatine, BCAAs, and creatine

Thank you for the response, I think that is realistic and I suspect the upper limit for a natural would be 230-240lbs at my height?

I will look at the frequency on the article but I recover quickly and am maxing the stack on most of the exercises. I find the exercises that work the CNS is the deadlift with the squat second to that.

As for nutrition, I have oats with whole milk and a scoop of whey protein in the morning, protein and carbs intraworkout and post workout. After that, I have a meal or protein shake every 2-3 hours.

You’re still glossing over your diet/nutrition instead of the granular detail you went with your training

Look at some of the training logs - people detail daily calories and macro breakdown. We don’t need to know exactly what you’re eating, but you should.

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I mean, it depends on how lean you’re talking about. A 6-foot guy can weigh 240, of course. But weighing 240 with really good ab definition as a natty? Unlikely.

This is a recurring topic for plenty of reasons. Most recently discussed at length in this thread: Natural Bodybuilding Stats and Gains

That sounds like a tiny breakfast. Maybe 500-ish calories and around 30g of protein. You’ve already put on size, so you know how to eat. Though a big part of that was from simply being so underweight beforehand, so I wouldn’t expect (or seek) the same rate of progress from here on out.

If you say the progress has been mostly muscle, that’s even better. Just don’t fall into the trap of seeking “many calories” instead of “many calories with ample quality protein to ensure muscle growth and minimize fat gain.”

Good call on using intra and post-workout nutrition. That’s a good time to throw down fast-absorbed protein and carbs.

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Thank you for the replies, I will have to measure and check how many calories I am having each day. I have written a new routine as the old one was a lot of volume. Now that I have bulked to 98KG, I know that I can not do hypertrophy rep ranges on all exercises at heavy weight without fatiguing the CNS.

Assuming your have ‘Top Shelf’ genetics and do everything correctly; in beach ready (all abs in) condition, that upper limit will be in the 210-220 range. Your working weight for squats & deads will be 2-2.5x body weight. For horizontal press & row about 1.5x, & about 1x for overhead press. What are your current working weights in the ranges you listed?

Please post photos of front and back.