T Nation

How Should a Newb Train?

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[/quote]

400 grams of protein is overkill for most people, especially most newbs, who haven’t even established good dietary habits to begin with yet.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread recommend using Starting Strength for 2-3 years.

You seem angry that no one is praising your advice. Perhaps you should post pictures from angles that don’t hide your otherwise obvious belly.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[/quote]

400 grams of protein is overkill for most people, especially most newbs, who haven’t even established good dietary habits to begin with yet.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread recommend using Starting Strength for 2-3 years.

You seem angry that no one is praising your advice. Perhaps you should post pictures from angles that don’t hide your otherwise obvious belly.[/quote]

not really, i don’t care whether i’m praised or not.

if you want to trash talk me or whatever… are you really 5’8 175 after 5 years, and bench only at 300?

and lol recommending SS at all to anyone, for any period of time. It’s like, do this shit, half assed, garbage routine that sucks for bodybuilding… then after wasting years on it get on a real bodybuilding routine

yeah, intelligent

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

^^why are you so hostile?

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
^^why are you so hostile?[/quote]

they drew first blood, not me

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
^^why are you so hostile?[/quote]

they drew first blood, not me
[/quote]

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

not really, i don’t care whether i’m praised or not.

if you want to trash talk me or whatever… are you really 5’8 175 after 5 years, and bench only at 300?

and lol recommending SS at all to anyone, for any period of time. It’s like, do this shit, half assed, garbage routine that sucks for bodybuilding… then after wasting years on it get on a real bodybuilding routine

yeah, intelligent

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

[/quote]

Ok, so we agree, 400 is excessive. Cool.

200-300 is quite a range, but most anyone eating at my 1.25g/lb bw figure will fall in there. We agree again. Cool.

As far as Starting Strength goes:


This guy will tell you that he got his squat up into the 400’s for reps with the beginner’s program and then to where it is in the video with the intermediate program.

Any program sucks if it’s done half-assed. I wasn giving advice to people who are willing to put in the work, no those who do things half assed. If I were in that business, I would have saved my time and just told them to go home.

I also specifically stated that a linear progression program should be used for 3-6 months initially to max out linear strength gains and nail form down quickly, then transition to a more reasonably periodized program like 531 or Juggernaut, both of which are easy to adapt to bodybuilding-style assistance work (remember, the kid in the example wants to be big and strong and somewhat lean- nothing mentioned about being a bodybuilder or aesthetics or any of that- big, strong, lean.). Hell, I even mentioned in my original post “incorporate more assistance work in order to build more muscle and improve work capacity”.

Hmmm. Seems to me you’re here to argue more than anything else, as you’re arguing against points I never made. We call that “trolling”.

As for the ad hominemn, I’ve close gripped 325 for reps before at a heavier bodyweight, squatted 600 lbs in a suit, and made a 500 lb equipped bench in training. I’ve also run an electronically timed 4.7 40 as an unathletic white kid who decided he wanted to run a decent 40 one day after having never run before in his life. I’ve also coached 2 elite raw powerlifters essentially from the ground up to their elite totals and prepped my fiance for her first physique competition, in which she took overall. I’ve destroyed both of my knees and torn muscles in my upper back that make sneezing painful. I’ve done a lot of things, and a good 2 years of my time training were spent caring very little for how big or strong I was, still managing when I decided to get back to training for a meet to high bar squat 2x bw for 10 reps (belt only) and bench 1.5x bw for 8. However, my varied goals and progress towards them is irrelevant to this thread.

FFS just let this newbie do EVERYTHING PROFESSOR X SAYS and then let this thread die

lol at drew first blood

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

[/quote]

I like the random amounts you give rather than basing protein need on bodyweight or LBM.

Nice!

So after a year of training, he should just start eating 400 grams, right?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

[/quote]

I like the random amounts you give rather than basing protein need on bodyweight or LBM.

Nice!

So after a year of training, he should just start eating 400 grams, right? [/quote]

if you had a math background you would understand

just like i do, duh!

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

[/quote]

I like the random amounts you give rather than basing protein need on bodyweight or LBM.

Nice!

So after a year of training, he should just start eating 400 grams, right? [/quote]

well, 2g/lb

i had assumed the beginner had no math experience and might not be able to perform multiplication

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
just like i do, duh![/quote]

seriously? what do you do

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

and yeah 400g protein was a bit of a joke, 200-300 would be decent for a beginner

[/quote]

I like the random amounts you give rather than basing protein need on bodyweight or LBM.

Nice!

So after a year of training, he should just start eating 400 grams, right? [/quote]

if you had a math background you would understand[/quote]

this post was taking the piss btw

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

  1. Un-fuck mobility, establish base strength/movement patterns (unweighed squats, push ups, a few pull ups, etc). Begin to establish quality eating habits (at least 3 round meals, emphasis on lean protein, carbs, fiber, and fruits/veggies, high water intake, minimal processed/fast food, etc): 2-3 weeks.

  2. Starting Strength or similar 3x weekly linear periodization program with emphasis on recovery and movement quality, establish regimented eating and tracking intake if possible. 18 calories/lb, protein at 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight, rest from quality carbs and fats. Follow this until gains from linear progression have been exhausted. Should be 3-6 months. Good technique in the basic lifts and a a base of strength/muscle should be established by the end of this period.

  3. Move to a reasonable periodized program such as 531, Juggernaut Method, etc. Increase work capacity and muscle mass further by beginning to incorporate more assistance exercises at times. Continue with ~18 calories/lb as mentioned earlier unless bodyfat accumulation becomes unsatisfactory. If you diet, do it wholeheartedly and get it over with and get back to things. This alone should get you well into year 2 or 3 of training.

  4. Begin to cycle emphasis of training periods around the same basic framework used in phase 3. For example, higher volume mass gain blocks, heavier strength focused blocks, lower volume weight training blocks with increased amounts of conditioning work, etc. Focus on a specific goal for 4-8 weeks at a time while maintaining previous capabilities with as little effort as possible, and then move to the next goal.
    [/quote]

This is VERY GOOD ADVICE.

I always found it strange when people in the gym couldn’t do simple things mentioned in Step 1, (bodyweight exercises & full range of motion on exercises). To build a house, you must first build a foundation.

In my experience I’d say I agree with rds that its good to set a good foundation by focussing on adding weight to the bar. After you’ve established a good foundation of strength you can transition to more of a body part split, kingbeef’s program thread springs to mind.

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[/quote]

What’s your general template for a noob?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[/quote]

What’s your general template for a noob?[/quote]

hmm, for a beginner

3x a week of:

Flat BB Bench
Shoulder Press
Deadlift (1 set 8-12)
Squat (20 rep)
Barbell Curl or Drag Curls
CGB or RGB or Skull Crushers
Calve Raises
Reverse Leg Curls
Rack chins
Barbell wrist curls

1-3 sets to failure(depending on recovery), 8-12 reps on initial set, 1 minute rest

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[/quote]

What’s your general template for a noob?[/quote]

hmm, for a beginner

3x a week of:

Flat BB Bench
Shoulder Press
Deadlift (1 set 8-12)
Squat (20 rep)
Barbell Curl or Drag Curls
CGB or RGB or Skull Crushers
Calve Raises
Reverse Leg Curls
Rack chins
Barbell wrist curls

1-3 sets to failure(depending on recovery), 8-12 reps on initial set, 1 minute rest

[/quote]

This is actually sensible.

bump to get more peoples ideas and input.

I’ve worked with a few clients who came to me with zero (ZERO!) gym experience of any kind. As I learned, some folks are so uncoordinated, that even exercises that we would consider basic and simple, can become a ridiculous looking, dangerous to oneself type of movement. One particular fellow (back when I actually worked with people in person) didn’t have the simple body awareness, or even balance to do a body weight squat. In instances like this, you can find yourself focusing quite differently than you would normally approach a beginner trainer.

I know this isn’t the actual intention of the subject at hand, but I thought it was useful to throw out. A lot of us might take certain basic understandings, or abilities as an automatic thing due to the company we keep.

S