T Nation

How Should a Newb Train?

stats
20 years old
5’10
140lb
15% bodyfat
average build
no real physical activity
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)

if you had full control over this person training, diet etc. how would you set up their training for the first say 2 years. say this person isnt really interested in competing they just want to be a big, lean and strong individual.

Starting Strength.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
if you had full control over this person training, diet etc. how would you set up their training for the first say 2 years.

keep in mind this person has pure size (bodybuilding) goals.[/quote]

what point are they starting from - eg age, height and weight and vague BF level (fat, average, or thin)?

do they have any previous athletic training background like sports?

do they have dem black genetics?

YOU ARE SOON ABOUT TO SEE MY MAN

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
if you had full control over this person training, diet etc. how would you set up their training for the first say 2 years.

keep in mind this person has pure size (bodybuilding) goals.[/quote]

what point are they starting from - eg age, height and weight and vague BF level (fat, average, or thin)?

do they have any previous athletic training background like sports?

do they have dem black genetics?

[/quote]

stats
20 years old
5’10
140lb
15% bodyfat
average build
no real physical activity
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
if you had full control over this person training, diet etc. how would you set up their training for the first say 2 years.

keep in mind this person has pure size (bodybuilding) goals.[/quote]

what point are they starting from - eg age, height and weight and vague BF level (fat, average, or thin)?

do they have any previous athletic training background like sports?

do they have dem black genetics?

[/quote]

stats
20 years old
5’10
140lb
15% bodyfat
average build
no real physical activity
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)
[/quote]

What are his goals?

Does he want to be a bodybuilder?

Does he want to be a power lifter?

Does he want to be somewhere in between?

as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
if you had full control over this person training, diet etc. how would you set up their training for the first say 2 years.

keep in mind this person has pure size (bodybuilding) goals.[/quote]

what point are they starting from - eg age, height and weight and vague BF level (fat, average, or thin)?

do they have any previous athletic training background like sports?

do they have dem black genetics?

[/quote]

stats
20 years old
5’10
140lb
15% bodyfat
average build
no real physical activity
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)
[/quote]

What are his goals?

Does he want to be a bodybuilder?

Does he want to be a power lifter?

Does he want to be somewhere in between?
[/quote]

ill edit the op.

  1. Un-fuck mobility, establish base strength/movement patterns (unweighed squats, push ups, a few pull ups, etc). Begin to establish quality eating habits (at least 3 round meals, emphasis on lean protein, carbs, fiber, and fruits/veggies, high water intake, minimal processed/fast food, etc): 2-3 weeks.

  2. Starting Strength or similar 3x weekly linear periodization program with emphasis on recovery and movement quality, establish regimented eating and tracking intake if possible. 18 calories/lb, protein at 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight, rest from quality carbs and fats. Follow this until gains from linear progression have been exhausted. Should be 3-6 months. Good technique in the basic lifts and a a base of strength/muscle should be established by the end of this period.

  3. Move to a reasonable periodized program such as 531, Juggernaut Method, etc. Increase work capacity and muscle mass further by beginning to incorporate more assistance exercises at times. Continue with ~18 calories/lb as mentioned earlier unless bodyfat accumulation becomes unsatisfactory. If you diet, do it wholeheartedly and get it over with and get back to things. This alone should get you well into year 2 or 3 of training.

  4. Begin to cycle emphasis of training periods around the same basic framework used in phase 3. For example, higher volume mass gain blocks, heavier strength focused blocks, lower volume weight training blocks with increased amounts of conditioning work, etc. Focus on a specific goal for 4-8 weeks at a time while maintaining previous capabilities with as little effort as possible, and then move to the next goal.

This gets you to year 4 or 5 and fairly diesel. I have a guy that’s been following this exact plan is cranking along in phase 3 at about 30 lbs heavier than where he started in mid 2011 and improving his strength relative to his bodyweight on a monthly basis. If he sticks with it, by years 4-5 (2015), he should be sitting at a solid (lean but not shredded) 220-230 lbs at 5’11" and deadlifting in the 500’s for 5-10 reps. No gimmicks, wrote essentially this same plan down on a sheet of paper I pulled out of the printer at work in 2011 before he moved away. I get a grateful text every few months when he’s set a new PR or outgrown some clothes. No gimmicks, just hard work and patience.

5/3/1 for a few years, then he could do whatever he liked after that.

At first when I read “white” I thought…wow that’s dumb. But then I thought about it, is there really any advantage or disadvantage or being any race or ethnicity?

[quote]chobbs wrote:
At first when I read “white” I thought…wow that’s dumb. But then I thought about it, is there really any advantage or disadvantage or being any race or ethnicity? [/quote]

Sadly, yes.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

  1. Un-fuck mobility, establish base strength/movement patterns (unweighed squats, push ups, a few pull ups, etc). Begin to establish quality eating habits (at least 3 round meals, emphasis on lean protein, carbs, fiber, and fruits/veggies, high water intake, minimal processed/fast food, etc): 2-3 weeks.

  2. Starting Strength or similar 3x weekly linear periodization program with emphasis on recovery and movement quality, establish regimented eating and tracking intake if possible. 18 calories/lb, protein at 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight, rest from quality carbs and fats. Follow this until gains from linear progression have been exhausted. Should be 3-6 months. Good technique in the basic lifts and a a base of strength/muscle should be established by the end of this period.

  3. Move to a reasonable periodized program such as 531, Juggernaut Method, etc. Increase work capacity and muscle mass further by beginning to incorporate more assistance exercises at times. Continue with ~18 calories/lb as mentioned earlier unless bodyfat accumulation becomes unsatisfactory. If you diet, do it wholeheartedly and get it over with and get back to things. This alone should get you well into year 2 or 3 of training.

  4. Begin to cycle emphasis of training periods around the same basic framework used in phase 3. For example, higher volume mass gain blocks, heavier strength focused blocks, lower volume weight training blocks with increased amounts of conditioning work, etc. Focus on a specific goal for 4-8 weeks at a time while maintaining previous capabilities with as little effort as possible, and then move to the next goal.

This gets you to year 4 or 5 and fairly diesel. I have a guy that’s been following this exact plan is cranking along in phase 3 at about 30 lbs heavier than where he started in mid 2011 and improving his strength relative to his bodyweight on a monthly basis. If he sticks with it, by years 4-5 (2015), he should be sitting at a solid (lean but not shredded) 220-230 lbs at 5’11" and deadlifting in the 500’s for 5-10 reps. No gimmicks, wrote essentially this same plan down on a sheet of paper I pulled out of the printer at work in 2011 before he moved away. I get a grateful text every few months when he’s set a new PR or outgrown some clothes. No gimmicks, just hard work and patience.[/quote]

Pretty much this exactly.

Stronghold, so you have a preference web divying up the rest of the calories between carbs and fat? 40% or the remaining calories in carbohydrates with the rest being fats? Or do you not care too much? (Obviously this would all just be a baseline that is adjusted based on the trainees results)

I think it also beneficial for a noob to start off with a coach or experienced workout partner. Having someone show you the ropes and help you with technique/form is key IMO so that you do not start out with bad habits.

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice!

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

  1. Un-fuck mobility, establish base strength/movement patterns (unweighed squats, push ups, a few pull ups, etc). Begin to establish quality eating habits (at least 3 round meals, emphasis on lean protein, carbs, fiber, and fruits/veggies, high water intake, minimal processed/fast food, etc): 2-3 weeks.

  2. Starting Strength or similar 3x weekly linear periodization program with emphasis on recovery and movement quality, establish regimented eating and tracking intake if possible. 18 calories/lb, protein at 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight, rest from quality carbs and fats. Follow this until gains from linear progression have been exhausted. Should be 3-6 months. Good technique in the basic lifts and a a base of strength/muscle should be established by the end of this period.

  3. Move to a reasonable periodized program such as 531, Juggernaut Method, etc. Increase work capacity and muscle mass further by beginning to incorporate more assistance exercises at times. Continue with ~18 calories/lb as mentioned earlier unless bodyfat accumulation becomes unsatisfactory. If you diet, do it wholeheartedly and get it over with and get back to things. This alone should get you well into year 2 or 3 of training.

  4. Begin to cycle emphasis of training periods around the same basic framework used in phase 3. For example, higher volume mass gain blocks, heavier strength focused blocks, lower volume weight training blocks with increased amounts of conditioning work, etc. Focus on a specific goal for 4-8 weeks at a time while maintaining previous capabilities with as little effort as possible, and then move to the next goal.

This gets you to year 4 or 5 and fairly diesel. I have a guy that’s been following this exact plan is cranking along in phase 3 at about 30 lbs heavier than where he started in mid 2011 and improving his strength relative to his bodyweight on a monthly basis. If he sticks with it, by years 4-5 (2015), he should be sitting at a solid (lean but not shredded) 220-230 lbs at 5’11" and deadlifting in the 500’s for 5-10 reps. No gimmicks, wrote essentially this same plan down on a sheet of paper I pulled out of the printer at work in 2011 before he moved away. I get a grateful text every few months when he’s set a new PR or outgrown some clothes. No gimmicks, just hard work and patience.[/quote]

Pretty much this exactly.

Stronghold, so you have a preference web divying up the rest of the calories between carbs and fat? 40% or the remaining calories in carbohydrates with the rest being fats? Or do you not care too much? (Obviously this would all just be a baseline that is adjusted based on the trainees results)

I think it also beneficial for a noob to start off with a coach or experienced workout partner. Having someone show you the ropes and help you with technique/form is key IMO so that you do not start out with bad habits.[/quote]

Oh, x1000 on experienced coach. Someone who can have their squat, bench, etc fixed the first week or two is months ahead of the game and will make faster progress because they won’t be slipping into bad habits and having to fix them once they’ve been ingrained. Coaching is HUGE. I think this is a big reason why you see so many grown-ass-man strong guys coming out of Coach Rippetoe’s place in Texas, but so many dweebs with a 205 squat after 2 years of training using his programs on the internet.

I think that’s largely personal, but for baseline purposes 2/3 of the remaining calories should be carbs. I don’t like high fat diets for gaining weight, but that’s my personal experience with myself and clients. I’m sure someone else can provide anecdote for otherwise, but they don’t get a say in how I would do things :slight_smile:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)
[/quote]
You’ll be able to get a lot more of your calories from mayonnaise.

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are!

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]
I was just going to ignore this but I can’t. OP… Please do not follow this absurd advice![/quote]

why?

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as frequently as possible

400g of protein a day

and 30 grams of creatine a day
[/quote]

This is funny because the inflated numbers aren’t large enough to be conceived as obvious trollbait, yet are small enough to trick someone in thinking it might just be the right way! Mean man you are![/quote]

if I could start over I would do this, I do this now… and my routine is as high frequency as possible while being able to make gains

call me out, and don’t call out the people advising “strength” routines? enjoy the posts in 1-2 years about “my biceps are lagging because squats didn’t make my arms grow like idiot Rippetoe said”

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
white (although i dont know why this would influence his training)
[/quote]
You’ll be able to get a lot more of your calories from mayonnaise.[/quote]

BAM! lol

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Un-fuck mobility
Establish quality eating habits [/quote]

Very good points to raise. I would have made much better progress if I had controlled my diet and worked on mobility from the beginning of my training.