Was wondering since it’s such a harsh drug.
Depends on how long you want to live, I suppose. Since there are no long term human trials—controlled trials that is—nobody really knows how bad it is or isn’t. If you’re worried about longevity and health, and you should be, then err on the side of caution. If your goals are some meme version of YOLO then I guess make your decisions based on that guiding principle.
Give a little more detail. Are you asking 8 vs 16 weeks or 16 weeks vs a year?
Dosages obviously will play a role along with blood work.
Iron pretty much gave you the best answer tho. If your really health conscious and want to live as long as humanly possible it’s probably better to just leave it alone.
I understand man, thank you for your answer, makes sense.
I was thinking just a basic 8 week cycle with no extreme dosages (300-500mg/week). Although I know some elite powerlifters do keep the dosages high and cycle time varies, I wrote out the cycle above as an example just so we could understand each other better.
8 weeks is on the lower end so that’s good if your worried about harm reduction.
Everyone seems to react a little differently from tren use. Some people handle it well others have life changing experience and not in a good way.
Just do your research understand the risk and make a decision based on goals. I will say unless your pretty far along as far as body/muscle development I wouldn’t use it.
8 weeks on the low end even if it would be the ace ester? I haven’t decided to use it, it was just a thought in my head for a while because many powerlifters do use tren, but if I were to use it, it would be for the strength benefits more than the aesthetic ones. Currently at a 600 squat, 375 comp bench and 640 conv deadlift @ a little over 220, but I compete @220. Just theoretically speaking, because I don’t think I’m that crazy to take it yet lol, how much approximately could a beginner cycle of tren ace add to my or someone’s lifts since we’re already talking about tren? Thanks for your answer btw! Also sorry for not being little more specific when I first asked my question.
Do you have previous cycles of other compounds completed?
I’m probably the worse person to even try and guess. I stay as far away from power lifting as possible. My lower back is jacked up and I have the elbows of a old man lol.
But it’s also just an impossible question to answer. Its probably safe to say with proper diet etc you will not be disappointed.
Oh ok I see. Only Test P, NPP and dbol so far. Highest doses were 500/w with test and npp and dbol 40/d
What do you all think of this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26584015
It worries me a bit since i am test wh0re (test for bulking/test for cutting).
The study was done on rats, yeah. But it is still a mammalian heart. And we can extrapolate a human equivalent dose, which would be roughly 2.26 mg/kg per WEEK (they gave rats 2mg/kg per day of both testosterone and trenbolone but rats, being a smaller animal, have much higher metabolism , ie. they excrete the drug much faster than humans).
Basically it says that testosterone caused much more cardiac scarring than trenbolone at the same dose. We know that supraphysiological doses of testosterone cause heart wall scarring and thickening, they basically lose flexibility, like an old membrane pump which became stiff, it doesnt relax well and therefore LVEF goes down.
Also the pump action itself is not as strong. Studies have been done on steroid users. Lowered LVEF is widespread amongst long time users. Low LVEF leads to condition called heart failure.
However, trenbolone has been shown to directly cause apoptosis of neurons in hippocampus (basically kills brain cells) and of course, its particularly detrimental effects on lipids are always a concern.
So its not black and white.
Haha sorry for the information overload, but the thoughts were coming to my head, wanted to share them.
HED is more like 3.2mg/kg. That’s 256mg for an 80kg man. So over 1,700mg/w. Seems unlikely to be a dose you’d see IRL.
No, not per day. Per week. I divided by something like 6.2, i remember seeing the number come up in the literature.
It comes out as 226mg per WEEK for a 100kg man.
“Alzet miniosmotic pumps containing either vehicle, 2-mg/kg·d TEST or 2-mg/kg·d TREN were implanted in HF/HS+ORX rats“
That’s per day. And I screwed up the HED completely (don’t text and drive, kids). So HED is .324mg/kg, which is 25mg/d. Yikes.
Iťs ok man I just don’t understand that much lol, something to look into
@iron_yuppie exactly. Multiply 0.324 by 100 and then by 7 and ypu get 226.8 mg per week for a 100kg man.
Which is disturbing, as 226mg is not far away from standard 200mg of test used for trt. But then again, i assume this was pure test and tren? Because 200mg of, say, test cyp is actually 140mg of testosterone.
So to get 226 mg of testosterone you would have to inject around 325mg of test e or cyp per week.
How do you comment the fact that they discovered that testosterone causes more heart wall scarring than trenbolone at equal doses?
To me it is a little disturbing as i exclusively use test.
It’s strange for sure. And I assume since they used a daily pump it was unesterified test.
I’d have to read the whole thing and not just the abstract, but it’s certainly disturbing when you consider that a lot of us just use test. Good find my man. Appreciate the post.
TREN FOR THE WIN!!!
As long as my heart is healthy who needs a brain!