I’ve heard everyone arguing about how much weight they can get out of a pair of tight SBD knee sleeves for the longest time, so I finally decided to measure the additional resistance to knee flexion that my tightest pair of knee sleeves added.
Something I’ve noticed after making this video is that some people still claim to get a lot more out of their sleeves than the result I measured. Based on my experiment, I think it’s unlikely that additional weight added is due to additional force being added by the sleeve, but more likely that people are getting more out of their sleeves due to increased proprioception, confidence, or stability. Or it could be simply that people get used to wearing the sleeves, so they feel immediately weaker without them.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Is this consistent with what you’ve noticed using a pair of sleeves? Do you think the experiment was flawed? what do you think the additional benefits of knee sleeves are?
I found it adds a bit to my squat maybe 10kg. Might be in part like mental and confidence boosting because I train sleeveless.
That said this is how I think of it or at least how it’s been put to me. So let’s say squat. You fail because you couldn’t generate enough speed and lik force to get through your sticking point. You bounce out the hole slow down and bar speeds gets to 0 and you miss.
So like we all know at that a light touch so like not much force is all it takes to get the bar moving again and once you’re through the sticking point it’s smooth sailing. Even a super soft touch can be the difference. So like we gotta think about how much assistance we get through the sticking point and how much of a difference that can make.
So it’s the little added oomph that sleeves add through the sticking point that is most useful
I dunno maybe I’m wrong but let me have my placebo effect
I didn’t get a chance to watch your video yet, but this is what I can tell you. First of all, thin sleeves like the grey Rehbands will add absolutely nothing. Thicker, longer, and stiffer sleeves like SBDs (Iron Rebel, Metal, and Slingshot all make basically identical sleeves) will add something if they are tight enough and you squat with enough knee flexion. At one time I thought I got nothing out of my SBDs, after a meet I spent about a month or two squatting without sleeves. The first week with them back on I squatted my sleeveless 4rm for 5, and nothing else was significantly up. If they were tighter they would add more, but you can see I got a small boost.
There are other sleeves which add more. I haven’t tried Titan Yellow Jackets but first of all, they aren’t tapered so they will fit over big calves (which limit how small SBDs I can wear). Second, USPA/IPL considers them equal to knee wraps and they are only allowed in the raw w/wraps or equipped division. Then there are Cerberus 9mm sleeves, Strengthshop makes (or at least used to) double and triple ply sleeves, and Inzer has sleeves that look like a bunch of knee wraps sewn together and the tightness is adjustable. All of those will add a significant amount.
You bring up an important point. the point at which sleeves aid the most is at the lowest point in the squat, but most people have sticking points quite a bit higher than that. So the sleeves are giving benefit by adding force at the bottom that translates into better bar speed at the sticking point.
I think all the 7mm/30cm sleeves are basically the same except for the Titan Yellow Jackets, those are the only ones that I could see having any extra benefit but there are not a lot of fed you can use them in for raw squats. I heard that the newer SBDs are not as thick, someone on here said that the only difference was stiffness. I have had the same pair since shortly after they came out so I can’t really tell you except that SBD would not be my first choice at the moment.
I have a pair of the yellow jackets, they actually felt a little less supportive than the SBDs to me. Definitely a similar sleeve but they just felt a little… softer?
I finally watched the video. Jason Blaha is a fucking idiot by the way, better not to pay attention to him.
So first of all, the sleeves you wore for this experiment are tight but people are wearing tighter sleeves than that. The IPF made a rule shortly after SBD sleeves came out that you have to be able to put on your knee sleeves yourself because at worlds there were some Russian lifters that were using plastic bags and four coaches to put on their sleeves. Mike Hedlesky wrote an article about SBDs saying that they did add something to his squat but they were so tight he couldn’t even put them on at first and he has pulled over 800lbs. Also, I saw a video of Amit Sapir’s girlfriend struggling to pull up his sleeves using suit slippers. So while your sleeves may be tight (certainly tighter than the ones I have) they are not the tightest that they can be. These guys must be pulling them down between sets or something. 50lbs would be the absolute upper limit that you could theoretically get out of them, I would be happy to get 50lbs out of knee wraps and I can’t wear them for 5 minutes.
I have never used Yellow Jackets, from what I heard the main difference from SBDs was that they aren’t tapered so they can fit over bigger calves plus they have that X over the knee which would add some tension. I’m surprised to hear that yours are softer, if that’s the case then I don’t understand why IPL/USPA doesn’t allow them in the raw division. Do you have the new black ones or the old yellow ones?
I guess I hadn’t considered the rules in other federations allowing people to use bags/slippers for knee sleeves, I forget that anyone other than USAPL even bothers with knee sleeves. I wouldn’t be able to take my sleeves on and off between sets, because once I get any kind of a pump into my legs and a little bit of sweat, it gets tremendously harder to put on the sleeves. It would be interesting to see how much resistance there is if I tried to cram on an XS or XXS with the help of bags and two other people. I kind of suspect that there wouldn’t be that much additional benefit and that 10kg is approaching the upper limit of what the material will deform to and still have elasticity. If I can get ahold of a tiny pair that someone doesn’t mind me potentially ruining, I’ll definitely do a part 2. I imagine that if I could manage to go down an additional size or two it would probably add even more, but I just couldn’t ever imagine it coming anywhere near doubling the resistance of what I was wearing in the video.
I have a pair of the new black yellow jackets with the yellow X across the front. Part of the problem may be that they aren’t as durable and got little tears in the neoprene. I can feel many small vertical tears in the middle layer of the sleeve, so maybe they just became less supportive as I tore them. Which may mean that the material is just as supportive, but not as durable.
I have a pair of the old yellow ones, the neoprene is torn now so I really only use them now to keep my knees warm. However, when they were new, I would definitely say they added close to 30-40lbs to my squat once I got used to wearing them. Also, I could put them on by myself. They were tight, but I didnt need a pit crew.
I’m not aware of any rules regarding plastic bags or suit slippers in any fed, all I know is that IPF rules say you have to be able to put them on by yourself. The fact that you only got 10lbs per leg out of the ones you used makes it seem like it wouldn’t hardly be worth it anyway, fucking around with knee sleeves between attempts for an extra 5-10lbs. might cost you an attempt anyway. Amit Sapir said he gets about 10-15 out of his, although he doesn’t squat with full knee flexion. Not sure if he wears them for the whole workout or what, I imagine that would be uncomfortable and basically occlusion training for calves.
You have me wondering why IPL won’t allow yellow jackets for raw w/ sleeves. At the very least I would assume that guys like me with big calves could put on a tighter pair since they aren’t tapered, my SBDs are quite a bit tighter at the bottom part than at the top and while I wouldn’t consider them to be particularly tight it isn’t always easy pulling them over my calves. I also heard about durability issues with the yellow jackets, Bryce Krawczyk (who is sponsored by a Titan distributor and has squatted 700 in sleeves) was saying that and also said that aside from the taper the SBDs are basically the same. I have had the same pair of SBDs and they still look brand new, at first I only used them leading up to a meet and in the meet but for almost a year I have used them all the time and they show no signs of wear. They did start to feel loose at one point, like they were getting stretched out a bit, but then my legs grew.
I changed my squat style over the last couple years, I used to sit back more and use less knee flexion and when I got my SBD sleeves I was disappointed that I got nothing out of them. Now I’m more upright and basically full knee flexion and last year my 4rm with no sleeves became a 5rm with sleeves. Maybe 10lbs. difference if I had to guess, with a moderately tight pair.
Maybe Jason Blowhole is right, who would have imagined. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
The yellow ones were shorter than the new ones. When the yellow ones first came out I was at a meet and one guy had a brand new pair that he hadn’t even put on, he actually did have another guy helping him pull them up because they were too tight. He was saying that he had a bad training cycle and his squat didn’t make any progress and he ended up with a big PR on his 3rd squat. He let me take a look at the sleeves after, they felt way stiffer than SBDs. I have never held a pair of the new yellow jackets so I can’t really compare them but if they are 30cm and tight with the same material I could see that adding quite a bit.
You know what though, the idea of lifting raw and trying to get maximum carryover from your sleeves seems kind of backwards to me. You might as well just squat in wraps. The main reason I’m wearing SBD sleeves is because knee sleeves just feel good to squat in and they keep my knees warm, I used to do most of my squatting in a pair of grey Rehbands but those are stretched out, torn up, and slide around my knees, I wear them (inside out because the outside is done) when I deadlift in training so I don’t scrape the shit out of my knees.
Did you know that Titan makes a singlet with a double ply crotch (called “Triumph”) and that many people have said it adds pounds to your squat? As far as I know, the only fed where you can use that singlet is the IPF. Maybe they have a secret plan to slowly transition everyone back to single ply gear.
I just got my Titan Triumph singlet today. I had to have it overnighted from Anderson because I pulled out my twice used Inzer Power singlet for a meet this weekend and found that the crotch area had dry rotted and blown out. I didn’t notice a double layer on the Triumph but I’ll check it when I get back to work. Even if it is double layer I squat with a pretty narrow stance so I doubt it would help.
I just checked the Titan site to see about this, it’s possible that they have a triumph singlet with a single ply crotch as well. If you look at the description for one of the regular triumph singlets it says nothing about the crotch but check “Triumph Sublimated”, which appears to be the same singlet with different designs and the descriptions says “Double-Ply Crotch - for IPF events. Single-ply available for other federations”. Maybe you got a single ply version, you can always put on some squat briefs underneath.
Some meet illegal sleeves might offer even more bounce. I feel a little pop with the EliteFTS elbow sleeves I have, and they are loose and elbow sleeves generally don’t do much since the flexion is to a lower angle.
I have heard people say the EliteFTS Super Heavy knee sleeves are like a light wrap, and that if they fit right, you will need help getting them on.
You are correct, I just got back to the office and there is a small area of two layers right under the taint. If you bought it undersize and squat wide or dL sumo it might give you a kg or two. Might.
I heard you could get like 30 out of it on the squat, people say that deadlift suits don’t even add much so I doubt it would make a difference for DL, sumo or not.
Are you competing in an IPF-affiliated fed? If not, better check the rulebook to make sure that singlet is allowed.
