T Nation

How Much to Test Injections Raise Total/Free T?

#1

Since researching TRT I have become curious about how much testosterone injections raise total T.

I have seen some people with a total t of 200 or so start TRT and their dosage of 160mg brings their testosterone up to 500-600. My question is how does this work if another person with 600-700 total test levels? If they are injecting 160mg, the same ats the 200 total T person, what would their levels eventually be at ? I am just curious because doesn’t Testosterone injections eventually kill the natural testosterone production? So if their production eventually drops to zero would that dosage of 160mg a week actually bring theirs down to 500-600 like the guy that started with a total of 200 ? Sorry if this is a dumb question but i am genuinly curious how this works.

#2

Basically any amount you inject will shut you down. Studies have shown shutdown happening at 25 mg per week.

The dose response has more to do with SHBG and overall testosterone metabolism than starting levels. Could be the guy with ultra low test has higher levels than the guy who started high has on the same dose. Actually it is likely that this is the case, since someone with 700 ng/dl total would have to have very high SHBG to even need TRT.

Edit: When I say levels I am talking about Free T, as that is what matters to the body.

#3

Whether it’s 10mg weekly or 160, you are shutdowning down your natural production. We live in a world where everyone binds androgen and metabolizes testosterone differently.

We are all biochemically unique.

#4

When weekly dosing you can use the rule of 10. So if you inject 200mg, once you have reached steady state levels, your peak will hit 2,000 ng/dl (roughly) and they will drop to about half, 1,000 ng/dl, on about day 7.

Not sure why everyone says shut down is shutdown? Thats just not true, a lot of guys get pregnant on low doses of testosterone without HCG.

#5

When I say shutdown I mean natural T production is shutdown unless on HCG, but it’s still possible to conceive without HCG.

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#6

Ok then we agree :smile:

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#7

LH and Testosterone shut down and FSH and sperm shut down are two different things. My last child was concieved before trt with a TT of 71 LH of 0.7 range of 2.0-12.0 and FSH 2.2 range of 1.0-8.0. When i switched Drs they didnt believe they were legit pre TRT no test use labs because of lh being shut down almost.

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#8

I think that is how we all mean the term “shutdown”.

Now this I don’t know if I can agree with…I’ve never seen a GUY get pregnant!! Lol!!

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#9

Well I would argue you are inducing primary and secondary hypogonadism regardless, but the level of suppression varies.

Sperm count is always suppressed, you just don’t need many swimmers to get prego. So some men get suppressed all the way to where there is not enough sperm to conceive, some are not suppressed enough to drop sperm count below what would be considered still possible to conceive.

#10

These birth control pills for men are not guaranteed to work for the same reason TRT isn’t always guaranteed to eliminate sperm completely in everyone.

Personally I believe these male birth control is unethical in a world where men are facing infertility worldwide. It’s alright to prescribe birth control, but not TRT.

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#11

True the studies on Asians in regards to testosterone suppression show it is much more effective than it is on caucasians.

#12

Inducing primary and secondary? I am secondary from methadone I have been on the past decade.

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#13

Yea anytime you take androgens or anabolics you are inducing secondary hypogonadism and primary hypogonadism.

Not only does it suppress LH and FSH, but it also desensitizes the testes from receiving them.

#14

Thank you guys! I was just curious how that works. So generally higher shbg people would be the rule of 10 with the mgs and low shbg seem to metabolize test faster and have lower rises?

#15

The can now. Many even get maternity leave from their employer………………

#16

:roll_eyes: oh brother!

#17

Not sure on that. I guess I should almost correct my post above to say that free T would likely be higher in the person with low SHBG. Not sure on Total T (which also includes your Free T).