T Nation

How Much Should I Charge PT Clients?

Do it right or don’t do it. How difficult, time consuming and expensive could it be to get some sort of certification? I am pretty sure gyms wont let you train people unless you are an employee or you provide your own liability insurance and pay them for use of their facility as an independent contractor.

[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
You would absolutely be liable for someone getting injured by following your “professional” advice or under your watch at the gym. [/quote]

Maybe. But all I remember really well from Torts II class at Harvard law is that a person with no money or insurance to pay a judgment is never at fault for an injury.

And in seriousness, no PI lawyer will bother suing someone who is judgment proof. Poverty is the ultimate legal defense.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
How Much Should I Charge PT Clients?[/quote]
You should charge what you’re worth. Not what you wish you were worth. Not what you expect you’ll eventually be worth. Not what you think you can get away with charging.

Charge what you, a dude who’s still sorting out his own training and has no legitimate, organized education in the field, is actually worth for the level of services you’re offering.

While we’re on the topic, people whose sole credentials are “I’m jacked and have a double-bodyweight squat” are one of the worst trends in the fitness industry and they’re the cause for a bunch of negative stereotypes.

Sample client:

Hey JLB man, I’m a 19 year old dude, 5’10" and about 160 pounds. I can sorta see some abs if I flex on an empty stomach, Lolzers. Anyway, I want a kind of Jason Statham badass ripped body. I tried Starting Strength for one workout but I didn’t go back because my knees made some weird cracking noise when I squatted. I’m not on a meal plan and I buy my own food, so money’s kinda tight. What should I do?

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

Lol wut? You never understood my yard sale analogy. If I sell someone a lawnmower ‘as is’ then i’m at no fault if the lawnmower blows up.
[/quote]

Uh, this is like saying a car dealer or manufacturers aren’t at fault for selling faulty cars.

Again, if you state outright that you’re not responsible for whatever happens with your lawnmower and the buyer agrees, then fine. Otherwise, you’d be in trouble if the thing blew up.[/quote]

I don’t think you know what buying ‘as is’ means [/quote]

First, you can’t equate selling a used good and providing a service under the guise of professional advice.

The only requirement of selling a used good to someone else is clear title. So, yes, if you sell someone a used lawnmower and it blows up, they have no implied warrant of merchantability to claim against you.

Providing a professional service implies that your client is under your care and supervision, so if you get him hurt, you are liable. You also need to understand the difference between “at fault” and “liable.”

So, if you are training someone who is paying you, you are liable for what happens to them while doing so. If you are doing this at a facility that is not owned and insured by you, you should get clearance from that owner/insurer. This is not likely to happen, especially if you are not certified.

  1. Being not certified, the owner/insurer has no assurance that you know what you are doing and are taking proper steps to keep them safe in liability space.

  2. Being that you do not work for the facility, they are not likely to cover you under their liability insurance.

  3. Being not certified and not an employee, they have nothing to gain from allowing you to run a for-profit enterprise using their facility unless they enter into a contract with you, most likely one that shields them from all liability from your non-certified professional service as well as sucking dry any profit you may have hoped to make.

  4. Summing up the above, there is nothing to gain for the facility to allow you to do this and everything to lose in liability space, so they will tell you to pound sand.

I’m no fan of PT’s in general. The vast majority are poorly educated, poorly informed, do a crappy job, and don’t even look like they lift.

If you want to do it, get certified and enter into the appropriate contracts that shield you and the facilities you operate within from liability.

Rates are going to vary widely based on where you live. I train at a University gym in Southern California. These are the personal training rates. Yeah. A lot more than $12 per hour.

As JLD2k3 mentioned above - Most of the personal trainers in my gym would be of Zero interest to most people on these forums, but we do have an experienced strength coach/ OLY lifter who is AWESOME. As you can see below, he’s also expensive. Price for one session starts at about $50 dollars per hour, and then they give a break if you want to buy a package.

Personal Training Rates
1-on-1 Training Students Members
3 Sessions $46/session $49/session
5 Sessions $43/session $46/session
10 Sessions $41/session $44/session
20 Sessions $38/session $41/session

Each session is one hour in duration

Buddy Training Rates
Buddy Training Students Members
3 Sessions $56/session $59/session
5 Sessions $53/session $56/session
10 Sessions $51/session $54/session
20 Sessions $48/session $51/session

Fee is for 2 Buddies. Each additional
buddy is $10/session

Just an idea. Certifications are easy to get, right? Can’t you do some of these things in a weekend or two?

Then at least do a general liability waiver form? I don’t know how much those things really protect you, but I’d think it would be prudent at the very least to do that, and keep records of what you’re doing. Personally, I’ve considered getting a certification and doing if just for fun, but I wouldn’t touch it without knowing I had some liability insurance.

Note: I have no idea how much of a cut the University takes out of the fees above.

Do PTs have a fiduciary responsibility with their clients?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Do PTs have a fiduciary responsibility with their clients? [/quote]

I think they lack integrity. They should all go have a beer together.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Do PTs have a fiduciary responsibility with their clients? [/quote]

I think they lack integrity. They should all go have a beer together.[/quote]

That goes without saying…

I got certified years ago and immediately got insurance. I no longer have an active cert because it’s mostly useless to me but I sure as hell still have insurance. I think I pay about $150 A YEAR for liability insurance. Then it’s about being smart about what you do with your clientele. And get yourself a General Release form that clients sign before you do anything with them, I got one straight from a lawyer for 50 bucks.

Getting clients is hard without a gym that does a lot of the footwork for you, at least in my case. I don’t like commercial gyms so I work out of an athletic facility. I’ve had the same two clients for the past 2 years…

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
How Much Should I Charge PT Clients?[/quote]
You should charge what you’re worth. Not what you wish you were worth. Not what you expect you’ll eventually be worth. Not what you think you can get away with charging.

Charge what you, a dude who’s still sorting out his own training and has no legitimate, organized education in the field, is actually worth for the level of services you’re offering.

While we’re on the topic, people whose sole credentials are “I’m jacked and have a double-bodyweight squat” are one of the worst trends in the fitness industry and they’re the cause for a bunch of negative stereotypes.

Sample client:

Hey JLB man, I’m a 19 year old dude, 5’10" and about 160 pounds. I can sorta see some abs if I flex on an empty stomach, Lolzers. Anyway, I want a kind of Jason Statham badass ripped body. I tried Starting Strength for one workout but I didn’t go back because my knees made some weird cracking noise when I squatted. I’m not on a meal plan and I buy my own food, so money’s kinda tight. What should I do?[/quote]

Well first and foremost I would explain to him what it means to be ‘ripped’. It’s not just having a low body fat but also having some lean mass to go with it. As far as the knee cracking noise I’d ask when he experienced this popping noise. Was is during the eccentric motion or opposite? Does he still feel pain during his daily activities or only when lifting? If it’s the former I’d recommend he go to his doctor and I would be unable to train him until he’s been cleared by a doctor. If it’s the latter I’d make sure he has good form and supplement some stretching exercises depending on his pain threshold. I would put him on 5x5 and put him on a caloric surplus of about 300 calories. Explain to him the importance of diet when achieving your fitness goals. Since money is tight I’d advice him to buy Tuna, Pasta, eggs, milk, oats, peanut butter, lean chicken, brown rice etc. Finally i’d give him a plausible time frame to which he will achieve his goal.

What is the plausible time frame for 5x5 and that specified nutritional plan to reach the client’s goal? I am curious.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What is the plausible time frame for 5x5 and that specified nutritional plan to reach the client’s goal? I am curious.[/quote]

This question doesn’t have a definite answer. I don’t know the clients bf and genetic potential. Since he’s young i’m going to be his hormones are raging so i’d give it 8-12 months? Jason Staham isn’t that big so I think it’s plausible. Also I wouldn’t leave him on 5x5 the entire time. After about 2 months I’d add assistance exercises and increase the volume and caloric intake.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What is the plausible time frame for 5x5 and that specified nutritional plan to reach the client’s goal? I am curious.[/quote]

This is question doesn’t have a definite answer. I don’t know the clients bf and genetic potential. Since he’s young i’m going to be his hormones are raging so i’d give it 8-12 months? Jason Staham isn’t that big so I think it’s plausible. Also I wouldn’t leaving him on 5x5 the entire time. After about 2 months I’d add assistance exercises and increase the volume and caloric intake. [/quote]

I find your estimate very much unreasonable.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What is the plausible time frame for 5x5 and that specified nutritional plan to reach the client’s goal? I am curious.[/quote]

This is question doesn’t have a definite answer. I don’t know the clients bf and genetic potential. Since he’s young i’m going to be his hormones are raging so i’d give it 8-12 months? Jason Staham isn’t that big so I think it’s plausible. Also I wouldn’t leaving him on 5x5 the entire time. After about 2 months I’d add assistance exercises and increase the volume and caloric intake. [/quote]

I find your estimate very much unreasonable.[/quote]

I don’t think it is.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

I don’t think it is.
[/quote]

I would imagine that is true, or else you would not have made it.

But I do.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

I don’t think it is.
[/quote]

I would imagine that is true, or else you would not have made it.

But I do.[/quote]

I would imagine you would rebuttal me otherwise you would not have replied. However Staham weighs 170lbs.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

I don’t think it is.
[/quote]

I would imagine that is true, or else you would not have made it.

But I do.[/quote]

I would imagine you would rebuttal me otherwise you would not have replied. However Staham weighs 170lbs. [/quote]

I believe the word you were looking for it “rebut.” Rebuttal is the noun, whereas rebut is the verb.

We will have to agree to disagree on the subject.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

I don’t think it is.
[/quote]

I would imagine that is true, or else you would not have made it.

But I do.[/quote]

I would imagine you would rebuttal me otherwise you would not have replied. However Staham weighs 170lbs. [/quote]

I believe the word you were looking for it “rebut.” Rebuttal is the noun, whereas rebut is the verb.

We will have to agree to disagree on the subject.
[/quote]

That is incorrect. It depends on which country you are in. I will agree that I am right. Thank You. I’ll take my props now.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

That is incorrect. It depends on which country you are in. I will agree that I am right. Thank You. I’ll take my props now. [/quote]

Well, it appears we will have 2 issues to agree to disagree on then, but that is ok.

I wish you luck with your PT endeavors.

google personel traing lawsuits once money changes hands you are considered professional
reasons people sue can be down rite stupid
so u need insurance cant get insurance without cert
unless u not in us might be different