[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Nothingface wrote:
As Poliquin said, “We’re made to throw a rock at the rabbit, not chase it”.
We’re made to sit, make snares and nets, and walk our trails all day long, collecting snared rabbits and netted fish.
We are the scrawny-but-brainy geek of the animal kingdom.
– ElbowStrike
[/quote]
You’re absolutely right. That’s another way of saying it.
[quote]HJLau75 wrote:
Nothingface wrote:
On a side note, running athletics should be divided into weight classes just the same as strength athletics are.
In running it is the opposite. The smaller guy is generally going to be a better runner. Having less mass is an advantage.
Not a good idea.
Having weight classes for running is like having weight classes for swimming.
Completely useless and stupid. It’s either you are the fastest or not, who cares how much you weigh.[/quote]
Also, runners have told me that some races do have a heavier weight class. They class it “Clydesdales” or something lame like that. So even runners recognize the difference.
Is there a difference between a 165 pounder squatting 500 lbs. and a 265 pounder squatting 500 lbs.? Of course. It is more impressive that the smaller guy could lift the same weight as the bigger guy. Is there a difference between a 165 pounder running a 3 hour marathon and a 265 pounder running a 3 hour marathon? Of course. It is more impressive that the bigger guy could run the marathon in the same time as the smaller guy.
It’s no coincidence that the top marathoners are under 150 pounds. That endeavor lends itself to light bodyweight, and does not require any significant muscle mass.
It’s also no coincidence that the guys who lift the most are over 250 pounds. Those endeavors lend themselves to heavy bodyweight and requires a very high level of muscle mass.
Its just 5miles guys!!!
Gosh if i ever get to the point where i have to think about losing mass as a result of training to run for 5miles then i know i really need to overhaul my program
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Please enlighten me with your wisdom.
You wrote: “Most of the big guys are against running because they are not good at it and it hurts their joints.”
Big guys don’t run because running doesn’t help big guys stay big and strong. [/quote]
The same could be said for all forms of cardio. Big and strong are only 2 components of fitness and athleticism.
Many people realize that they need some form of energy system work or cardio.
Running is often not the best choice for big guys but it is a fine choice for smaller guys.
If the OP was 250 pounds I would say running would be rough on his joints and may cost him muscle.
Running is a fine exercise as long as it fits your body type and goals and you don’t do too much of it.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:
As for staying big and strong. You can run and still be big and strong (as long as you’re intaking enough calories)… “running” doesn’t mean marathons or crazy distances.
Did you read the initial post for some CONTEXT? Here is what was written: “I have some friends that want to do a relay marathon at the end of the year, where we each run 5 miles.” That is a lot of running.
[/quote]
It is only 5 miles. Not too terribly far.
I have seen plenty of guys run 5 K’s and 5 milers well with good physiques, not jacked bodybuilders but not anorexic either.
You don’t have to be anorexic to run these distances.
Marathons are a different story.
I would’nt do it. It will most likely cause massive heart attack. Aerobics kills. Be warned.
[quote]Nothingface wrote:
To the original poster, if your goal is to be that type of athlete, fine more power to you. You won’t get any crap from me.[/quote]
My goal is to have a bodybuilding physique more than a sprinter physique. I want to be lean, but not at the expense of looking like a toothpick.
I spent the last year putting on about 10 pounds of muscle…my concern is that if I spend a lot of time running, I might just end up where I was a year ago.
Will I lose my muscle by doing 3 extra sessions of running each week, or can I expect to keep my muscle while leaning out a little more?
Keep your diet up, sip some Surge during your runs, and lift heavy in the gym to maintain your mass.
Unless you’re already <10% BF you shouldn’t waste away doing a little road work. Don’t worry about it, have fun and win that race.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:
As for staying big and strong. You can run and still be big and strong (as long as you’re intaking enough calories)… “running” doesn’t mean marathons or crazy distances.
Did you read the initial post for some CONTEXT? Here is what was written: “I have some friends that want to do a relay marathon at the end of the year, where we each run 5 miles.” That is a lot of running.
[/quote]
5 miles is a lot of running? Since when?
[quote]
If you’re an athlete, depending on your sport, you might want to have good cardio vascular fitness.
And long running is good for what sport - other than running?[/quote]
5 miles is hardly long running. If you play basketball you run… a lot. 2 hours of basketball (especially if you play particularly up-tempo) will be at least 3 miles of straight running.
If you play soccer, especially if you’re a striker… you will run a lot.
[quote]Nothingface wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:
Nothingface wrote:
SkinnySwimmer wrote:
Aerobic exercise makes you live longer.
Longer than sitting on the couch? Yes.
Longer than lifting and doing higher intensity exercise? Doubtful.
Humans were not designed to run long distances. If we were, we would look like other animals that run long distances.
As Poliquin said, “We’re made to throw a rock at the rabbit, not chase it”.
Yeah, but you’d sprint after a rabbit, nnot try to out-last it in a marathon (seriously have you ever tried to catch a rabbit? They’re freaking fast)… so by extension is Poliquin suggesting that humans weren’t designed to run at all?
And the poster is right aerobic exercise does help you to live longer (unless you have a heart condition). However, you can get plenty of aerobic excerise from lifting (do a set of 10 snatches and tell me that your heart doesn’t get pumping).
I should have been more clear about what I was calling running. I am all for running for shorter distances. Again, train athletes that you want to look like or perform like. Top sprinters have physiques most of us would like to have. They generally don’t run long distances. They sprint and lift heavy. You can’t tell me that a marathon runner is healthier by default than a sprinter. Plus, you’re right, you can get aerobic work doing other things than just long distance running.
The bottom line is, long distance running makes your body want to become more efficient at running long distances and nothing else. Therefore, you feels it must lose weight. The first thing that goes is significant muscle mass. The body wants to hold onto that bodyfat no matter what.
Which one of these pictures would be closer to your ideal physique? (I know there are other factors, such as genetics, drug use, nutrition, etc). But training is also a factor. If the skinny guys want to run really far, then they have built the physique to do it. If they want to run fast, tackle a running back, check someone through the glass, jump high, knock someone out, lift heavy things, attract the hottest women, etc,etc,etc, then they might want to start training like the guy in the next picture.[/quote]
I completely agree.
Obviously if you run something like a marathon you can’t expect to keep much mass (your body will start to burn protein and you’ll lose muscle).
My point was just that people don’t have to necessarily be afraid of doing cardio work (it just depends on how much and how you eat).
I don’t consider 5 miles to be very big distance. A year ago, I used to run between 5 and 8 Kilometers a day and I didn’t shrivel-up; granted I was 35 lbs lighter than I am now… but I still weighed 200lbs (but I was doing rock-climbing and the extra weight wouldn’t have helped any).
And cardio doesn’t necessary mean distance running or cycling. You can get plenty of cardio from lifting if you lift heavy with high volumes; it all depends on your goals.
You want to try something? Keep lifting. Start your running session (different time of day so it doesn’t take much away from your weight session).
Eat so much that you think you will gain weight.
You won’t sabotauge your goals. The cardio will make you feel better, improve your recovery time, make your pumps better…
I would go so far as to say that cardio will make you stronger. No, I can’t prove it. But it’s pretty common knowledge your heart runs the whole fucking show. I know that I neglected cardio for years because I thought I’d stay a skinny bastard.
WRONG. I’m constantly impressed at the out of shape bodybuilders out there… They look good, but they can barely climb a flight of stairs. Which in my mind, should a a sin.
That’s one of the reasons I like this site: there’s lots of focus on athletic performance and overall conditioning.
But you have to eat enough to support it all.
[quote]jjoseph_x wrote:
5 miles is hardly long running. If you play basketball you run… a lot. 2 hours of basketball (especially if you play particularly up-tempo) will be at least 3 miles of straight running.
If you play soccer, especially if you’re a striker… you will run a lot.[/quote]
2 hours of basketball is 2 hours of interval work. You don’t jog circles around the perimeter of the court, you sprint up and down with rest intervals at each end of the court.
And I wouldn’t look at soccer players (who spends most of his time running) and think of a bodybuilding physique. They tend to be smaller than what many of us would hope to attain.
Probably not the best two examples that you could have given.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Most of the big guys are against running because they are not good at it and it hurts their joints.
[/quote]
This isn’t always true. I don’t like to run because I don’t like spending that much time in a catabolic state. I do interval work on the treadmill at top speed (12.4mph) or on an incline (10% @ 10mph).
However, my wife likes to run, so I will join her on the weekend to take the dog for a run. It could be 3 miles or it could be 6 miles. The runs aren’t that taxing, I’d just rather not be doing them.
I just posted in another thread where I trained for a marathon at 225lbs, but due to all the running, I ended up at 208. Even with a 4day/week lifting program, and more calories than I knew what to do with, my body used muscle as a fuel source.
Having a lot of muscle and running long distances don’t go well together.
Now 5 miles isn’t the end of the world. You could probably get away with doing a 5 miler at 8 minute pace, a 3 miler at 7 minute pace, and a day of intervals (200-400m sprints with the same distance walking recovery), and do just fine on race day while still preserving muscle mass.
As a matter of fact, training for a 5 miler by only running 5 mile distances probably isn’t the best way of going about it in the first place.
[quote]mithious wrote:
WRONG. I’m constantly impressed at the out of shape bodybuilders out there… They look good, but they can barely climb a flight of stairs. Which in my mind, should a a sin.
[/quote]
Most bodybuilders do some kind of cardio, even if it’s walking or the stair climber machine. I’d like to know where you got this information that they can barely climb a flight of stairs. You make it sound as if they walk to the gym from their car and are out of breath. God forbid the free-weights are on the second floor.
My main fitness goal for this year is to replace about 8-10 pounds of fat with muscle. But if that isn’t realistic, I at least want to lose the 8-10 pounds of fat without losing any muscle in the process. I’m currently 150 pounds, around 12% body fat.
Several of you have mentioned that I need to eat more if I decide to train for the marathon relay. If I eat more, will I still lean out or will I just put on muscle and fat? I’ve been eating around 1800 calories/day while working out 5x/week.
[quote]Modi wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:
5 miles is hardly long running. If you play basketball you run… a lot. 2 hours of basketball (especially if you play particularly up-tempo) will be at least 3 miles of straight running.
If you play soccer, especially if you’re a striker… you will run a lot.
2 hours of basketball is 2 hours of interval work. You don’t jog circles around the perimeter of the court, you sprint up and down with rest intervals at each end of the court.
And I wouldn’t look at soccer players (who spends most of his time running) and think of a bodybuilding physique. They tend to be smaller than what many of us would hope to attain.
Probably not the best two examples that you could have given.[/quote]
You don’t just sprint (i.e. running at top speed) when you play basketball… when I ran indoors on a threadmill I averaged about 10 miles per hour (which is probably as fast or faster than you normally run in basketball unless you’re on a fast break).
As for soccer players have you seen Wayne Rooney’s or Roberto Carlos’ legs? Not all soccer players are skinny. Obviously having a lot of weigh isn’t going to help you (because you have to run so much, you’re working much harder than a smaller person)… so bodybuilder types don’t have the ideal physique to be elite soccer players.
Lots of sports require cardio vascular fitness and endurance (and some really don’t), so it all depends on your goals.
Conversely, if you don’t play any sports, then you could weigh 300lbs and do nearly zero cardio and it wouldn’t matter ('cuz you’d be huge which is what you want).
[quote]forlife wrote:
My main fitness goal for this year is to replace about 8-10 pounds of fat with muscle. But if that isn’t realistic, I at least want to lose the 8-10 pounds of fat without losing any muscle in the process. I’m currently 150 pounds, around 12% body fat.
Several of you have mentioned that I need to eat more if I decide to train for the marathon relay. If I eat more, will I still lean out or will I just put on muscle and fat? I’ve been eating around 1800 calories/day while working out 5x/week.[/quote]
Only 1800 calories? That’s not very much… not if you’re training 5 times a week and want to gain muscle.
If you eat cleanly (granted it’s much easier said than done), you won’t put-on much (any?) more fat.
If I have to choose between losing fat and gaining muscle, I would rather lose fat. Here are some pics I took tonight:
[photo]4857[/photo]
[photo]4858[/photo]
[photo]4859[/photo]
I’ve been eating clean (precision nutrition) at 1800 cals. I can see how I would need more cals if I do the marathon, how much do you think to reach my goals?
[quote]Nothingface wrote:
HJLau75 wrote:
Nothingface wrote:
On a side note, running athletics should be divided into weight classes just the same as strength athletics are.
In running it is the opposite. The smaller guy is generally going to be a better runner. Having less mass is an advantage.
Not a good idea.
Having weight classes for running is like having weight classes for swimming.
Completely useless and stupid. It’s either you are the fastest or not, who cares how much you weigh.
Also, runners have told me that some races do have a heavier weight class. They class it “Clydesdales” or something lame like that. So even runners recognize the difference.
Is there a difference between a 165 pounder squatting 500 lbs. and a 265 pounder squatting 500 lbs.? Of course. It is more impressive that the smaller guy could lift the same weight as the bigger guy. Is there a difference between a 165 pounder running a 3 hour marathon and a 265 pounder running a 3 hour marathon? Of course. It is more impressive that the bigger guy could run the marathon in the same time as the smaller guy.
It’s no coincidence that the top marathoners are under 150 pounds. That endeavor lends itself to light bodyweight, and does not require any significant muscle mass.
It’s also no coincidence that the guys who lift the most are over 250 pounds. Those endeavors lend themselves to heavy bodyweight and requires a very high level of muscle mass.
[/quote]
yea but the difference between an 130lb 800m runner and a 160lb 800m runner is 30 lbs. You can’t tell who is going to win by who weighs more, only until they run you know. In a power lifting contest the 160lb person is most likely going to lift more than the 130lb person.
You can’t gain weight to run faster, neither can you lose weight in a way to run faster. Your body will lose the weight gradually, but you can’t diet to drop 10seconds off your 5k time. In power lifting, if you gain more weight, you’ll most likely be able to lift more.
Weight doesn’t play a role in running unless you weigh too much. If you weigh too much then thats too bad, you won’t be able to compete in high level competition in mid-long distance.
You can’t compare sports where the more muscle you can gain, the bigger your advantage, to sports where weight gain is irrelevant. If weight groups in high level competition running made sense, they would have done it. But it doesn’t, so there isn’t.
I’ve read that marathon runners tend to have shorter lifespans/higher bodyfat percentages than other atheletes. This is also an interesting study
http://www.lifespan.org/healthnews/2006/11/27/article536268.html
But 5 miles is hardly anything. I used to do that distance for my morning “fun run” back when I was 145lbs.