How Much Protein Do We Really Need for Muscle Growth?

Do not believe me! Read Dr. Kempner’s work for yourself! It is your health M87!

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It is an impossibility (95%+5%+5% = 105%) and a joke on my part.

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Depends on the circumstances, I suspect.

If you are young and healthy, eating plenty of food anyway, then you may well end up at 15% just by accident.

But if you are talking about a sedentary, sarcopenic 75 year old, it would probably be better err on the high side for protein.

Wasn’t that intended as a short term intervention? When I looked it up, the article said that meat and vegetables would be added later on. Hard to imagine that 5% protein would be sustainable for a lifetime.

That depend on:
Your belief the plan will yield the best results.
And you desire for results.

For example - IF you feel that 13% on the money is the sweet spot and 12 or 14% will result in sub optimum results and you desire the results very badly - then there are people that will go to that level of effort to ensure 13% MEANS 13%

Also - the extra protein argument.
Sample size 1 - but since I made a commitment to eat 6 eggs and 500g of meat a day I’ve seen the best results of my life. For 6 Months my weight stayed the same but I built more upper body definition that I could have reasonable expected and added 30kg to my front squat and squat.
I feel that 13% or 1g/kg is too low. And in my (wholly subjective, very limited) opinion I would not recommend it to anyone trying to gain muscle / strength. Or retain muscle / strength on a calorie deficit.

The ideal diet for athletic performance is slightly different than the ideal diet for building muscle. And there’s also an ideal diet for losing fat, longevity, pregnancy, children, teenagers, wound healing, and starvation. Each one would have a protein percentage that would be more or less than 13%.

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That is a fair point.

Simpson and Raubenheimer change their recommendations depending on the individual situation: They suggest being at the higher end of the range for developing children, pregnant women, and seniors, and at the lower end for middle aged adults. I can’t remember what they said about activity levels.

Also, 20% of calories from protein is not that extreme. Let’s suppose a 170 lb man who requires 2500 calories per day at maintenance. That is 500 calories from protein, or 125 g, or 0.735 gm/lb.

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My grandma literally lived on See’s candy for the last decade of her life (and she lived to be 96).

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This is what I was wondering, as well. This seems logical both intellectually and observationally.

Mistake on my part, it should have been, fat & protein of around 5 %!
Kempner’s diet was for sick people, and never intended for long term dietary regimes, or healthy folk.

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No worries. I can’t do grammar of spell, but I can do math. The 105% raised my eyebrows.

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Thanks

Intentional or not: gold

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Unintentional. Potentially a few thing there. I think the grammar Nazis hate “can’t” (not sure on that one TBH). The “of” is a typo.

Well, is actually “NAZI” since it is an acronym…National Socialist. :grin:

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Nah, it’s just Nazi, and Nazi isn’t an acronym, unless you’re talking about the North African Zebra Industry. NSDAP was the acronym they used.

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If math is correct, Dr. Darden’s protein recommendations have never varied since first coming across his publications in the 80s. 20% protein, when going on a body fat cutting plan he advocates, 13% when eating more calories. So, the number of grams remain relatively the same for the individual based on his or her total calories if I’m not mistaken.

Regarding protein requirements? Brad Pllon, author of Eat Stop Eat, published an ebook, How Much Protein, eight or nine years ago.How Much Protein - Brad Pilon's 'Eat Blog Eat' Brad’s got a background in biochemistry (?), if I’m not mistaken, and had worked for the protein supplement companies. The research Brad cites in his publication is extensive and shows that the actual human needs are pretty much 1:1 with what Dr. Darden has recommended for decades.

An endocrinologist, Dr. Ron Rosedale, MD, also suggests nearly the same amounts for health reasons. Protein does stimulate insulin and of concern to him, too much protein = too much IGF-1, which is associated with cancers. Dr. Jason Fung, a kidney specialist and advocate of fasting also recommends lower level of protein. Zone Diet author Dr. Barry Sears, PhD, who works with Harvard endocrinologist Dr. David Ludwig, MD, has written repeatedly you cannot eat on muscle by consuming additional protein.

How about the myths created by the supplement industry regarding need for all of this protein? Simply that…look at legends of the past like Bobby Pandour. There was no way he had access to all of the “protein” – eggs, artificial products (eg powders) – yet his physique looked like Mentzer without the juice. The protein myth is simply more snake oil generated by the bodybuilding rags and their advertisers.

Anyone remember when you first started lifting and the crappy diet you were probably consuming? Pizza? Burgers? But weeks later, those pecs and biceps were starting to show. And ask yourself this: Mike Mentzer told me in 1981 or 1982 that he’d learned he didn’t need all of the protein people like Arnold were sucking down. He guessed he was at 110 - 120g/day compared to 300g/day – with both Arnold and Mike using PEDs, it was clear it wasn’t the protein as Mike looked amazing for a several years including his Night of the Champions wins and Mr. Universe wins.

I’ve never found it made any difference in muscle building no matter what I was eating. I was a health nut for many years downing brewers yeast , amino acids , protein powders etc etc and at other times I lived primarily on junk food. It made no difference on my muscle building or workouts.
Scott

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I’m going to let you know, that unless you are 1 in a billion, what you eat matters with regards to muscle building. It’s possible, that as a “health nut”, you still had a poor diet. Eating anything and getting results happens when you’re new, but the people with the best results aren’t eating total shit. There’s a reason that eating junk food for too long kills people.

I wouldn’t characterize any of that as “food”, just supplements. And I agree that most of these don’t make a big difference.