T Nation

How Much Is Too Much?

Today my deadlift 1RM first crossed the 2Xbodyweight line. This got me thinking - how much can just be “too much”? Health-wise, ofcourse…

I’m into Bodybuilding as a hobby - to help me look great and achieve LONG TERM health. I care less about numbers. I’m doing the deadlifting to aid my other goals. Should I be worried about lifting too much one day? Say in 1-2 years I get to 3Xbodyweight deadlift - should it be a concern to long term health?

I ain’t thinking long term as being 50. I’m thinking long term as being 90 and still looking good and being able to do some training. Damn it - look at Draper and Zane in their 60s, and imagine the possibilities for the younger generation! Ageing is flying through the roof over the past 50 years. I’ve read about many scientists talking about how many of my generation (1988) are gonna see their 130th, even their 150th year! This may sound funny to some, but I don’t wanna screw with my joints and muscles too much if I’ll be able to live that long.

More in terms with reality - I think most people here will agree things like competitive Marathoning or Powerlifting, virtually most competitive sports, will fuck up ones joints/muscles/bones/limbs/organs somehow at sometime. How do you know when you’ve gone too hardcore with your training - in a way you may seriously harm yourself long term? I find myself lifting more weight with more intensity each month… where’s the limit, the thin red line between maintaining great health and fucking yourself long-term?

[quote]the.israeli wrote:
More in terms with reality - I think most people here will agree things like competitive Marathoning or Powerlifting, virtually most competitive sports, will fuck up ones joints/muscles/bones/limbs/organs somehow at sometime.
[/quote]

I’m not so sure you’ll find most people here agreeing with that at all.

OVER 9000!

I deadlifted 2x BW today too, man, congrats to both of us.

Speaking for myself, I think that once I get to a certain point, I will generally be happy to not push the weights any further. In a PM Stu sent me, he mentioned pre-exhausting and then going relatively light on compounds (I believe this was for legs). That seems logical to me. At a certain point, I want to switch over to pre-exhaustion, special techniques, improving my mind-muscle connection, etc etc etc. I honestly believe that at some point using heavier weights just becomes very risky, and that’s not worth it to me.

To answer your question more generally - if you want to be the best at any sport, as you said, you will have to sacrifice your health. As for, “where is the line”… Great question. I look forward to reading what people have to say on this.

Well if your weight is less than 110kg, which is probable, you’re not deadlifting that much. I think that if you’re some of those relative strength guys, you won’t ever fuck up with your longevity. Most people won’t find so hard to train and get the bwx2 mark. If your deadlift is over 500 now that’s effort.

the israeli,

look man, it’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey.

i don’t want to be 130 years old, limping around with a cane, drooling out of my mouth and having some person have to wipe my ass.

i DO however, want to be a strong ass mofo in his 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and well into his 50’s and 60’s

so live it up man: have beer, or two. eat until you can’t move at a chinese buffet. sleep with women you know you won’t marry. and most importantly, lift some heavy ass weights!

i don’t go to the gym so i can learn to do 50 pushups, i go into the gym so i can learn to press 400lbs.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
the israeli,

look man, it’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey.

i don’t want to be 130 years old, limping around with a cane, drooling out of my mouth and having some person have to wipe my ass.

i DO however, want to be a strong ass mofo in his 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and well into his 50’s and 60’s

so live it up man: have beer, or two. eat until you can’t move at a chinese buffet. sleep with women you know you won’t marry. and most importantly, lift some heavy ass weights!

i don’t go to the gym so i can learn to do 50 pushups, i go into the gym so i can learn to press 400lbs.

[/quote]

It’s about an intense life. OP you may be already limiting yourself by thinking how much is too much.

Macaroni I think everyone has feasted on a Chinese buffet, good 1.

I personally find really easy to choose between doing 40 chinups or winning a bodybuilding contest.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

i don’t go to the gym so i can learn to do 50 pushups, i go into the gym so i can learn to press 400lbs.

[/quote]

You will probably be able to pull off both!

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
the israeli,

look man, it’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey.

i don’t want to be 130 years old, limping around with a cane, drooling out of my mouth and having some person have to wipe my ass.

i DO however, want to be a strong ass mofo in his 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and well into his 50’s and 60’s

so live it up man: have beer, or two. eat until you can’t move at a chinese buffet. sleep with women you know you won’t marry. and most importantly, lift some heavy ass weights!

i don’t go to the gym so i can learn to do 50 pushups, i go into the gym so i can learn to press 400lbs.

[/quote]

I’m having a good time living. I’m talking about taking training to the extreme, which will take a few more years anyway. I wasn’t talking about limiting myself entirely.

Wanna be strong to your 60s? Why not your 90s? Aim higher and there’s a chance you’ll get there. Plus, there are many people who aren’t using canes or any other assistance 'till the day they die, and I wanna be one of these folks. If you won’t screw up with your health too much, you’ll probably outlive the age of 90. Why not getting there relatively strong and injury free?
I really plan on living longer than that, and drinking too much or training to unnecessary extremes aren’t worth 30+ years of living a lame physical existence. Aim high, but don’t be too extreme…

was is your idea of ‘relativly strong’? being able to get out of bed without a cane when your 90?

aim high, but don’t be to extreme? that’s a terriable mantra to have, whether it’s applied to life or in the gym.

i aim to not be like every other mediocre guy who goes to the gym and people have to ask him, ‘do you workout’ when they are wearing clothes.

[quote]xivb4m wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:

i don’t go to the gym so i can learn to do 50 pushups, i go into the gym so i can learn to press 400lbs.

You will probably be able to pull off both![/quote]

Hell, I gotta give you an example…
While at boot-camp, we worked pushups 4-5 times a day. After a month and a half, I could do a first set of over 120 (slow and full range) xD Guess doing one exercise all the time really gets you into it. And… no - at the time it barely changed the size of my chest.

I bet anyone working on pushups can get straight 50 within a week.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
was is your idea of ‘relativly strong’? being able to get out of bed without a cane when your 90?

aim high, but don’t be to extreme? that’s a terriable mantra to have, whether it’s applied to life or in the gym.

i aim to not be like every other mediocre guy who goes to the gym and people have to ask him, ‘do you workout’ when they are wearing clothes.[/quote]

You don’t get what I’m saying. I train at the gym 3 times a week. I do martial arts 4 days a week, with so practice even on gym days. I eat and sleep well. I’m very serious about my training, self-disciplined and aiming high. What I’m saying is - I wanna get there the smart way, and not by brute force all the time. If I’ll take it too much to the extreme, I’ll eventually have injuries and long-term damages. I’m not a competitor, I don’t need to be the number 1 guy.

I’ll be just fine being among the 99% top of the population strength and health-wise. Sure there will be a few thousands in my country, even more than that, that will be better. But who cares? I wanna live long and healthy, and I’m only competing against myself.

[quote]the.israeli wrote:
Today my deadlift 1RM first crossed the 2Xbodyweight line. This got me thinking - how much can just be “too much”? Health-wise, ofcourse…

I’m into Bodybuilding as a hobby - to help me look great and achieve LONG TERM health. I care less about numbers. I’m doing the deadlifting to aid my other goals. Should I be worried about lifting too much one day? Say in 1-2 years I get to 3Xbodyweight deadlift - should it be a concern to long term health?

I ain’t thinking long term as being 50. I’m thinking long term as being 90 and still looking good and being able to do some training. Damn it - look at Draper and Zane in their 60s, and imagine the possibilities for the younger generation! Ageing is flying through the roof over the past 50 years. I’ve read about many scientists talking about how many of my generation (1988) are gonna see their 130th, even their 150th year! This may sound funny to some, but I don’t wanna screw with my joints and muscles too much if I’ll be able to live that long.

More in terms with reality - I think most people here will agree things like competitive Marathoning or Powerlifting, virtually most competitive sports, will fuck up ones joints/muscles/bones/limbs/organs somehow at sometime. How do you know when you’ve gone too hardcore with your training - in a way you may seriously harm yourself long term? I find myself lifting more weight with more intensity each month… where’s the limit, the thin red line between maintaining great health and fucking yourself long-term?
[/quote]

There isn’t much point in worrying about what physical condition you’ll be in when you hit 90 years of age - any number of things can happen between now and then.

As for the ‘limit’ - well, only you can determine that. Judging by your age, I think you’re well short of that limit(and only you will be able to say when you’ve stopped progressing). All you can do is to make the best use of your time and make as much progress as you can before age catches up with you. After that, its just a matter of maintaining what you’ve achieved.

Besides, I’m willing to bet that sensibleheavy lifting will keep you in better shape over the long term, instead of doing nothing out of concern for joint health. You’ve answered your own question. Do Draper and Zane have any joint issues?

[quote]the.israeli wrote:

Hell, I gotta give you an example…
While at boot-camp, we worked pushups 4-5 times a day. After a month and a half, I could do a first set of over 120 (slow and full range) xD Guess doing one exercise all the time really gets you into it. And… no - at the time it barely changed the size of my chest. [/quote]

what?

LMAO.

dude i was trying to make a point. I max out pushups for the army pt test. (75 in two minutes) and could easily do 120 for ‘my first set’.

[quote]the.israeli wrote:

I bet anyone working on pushups can get straight 50 within a week. [/quote]

and that’s EXACTLY my point! “anyone” could get 50 pushups, but can ‘anyone’ press 400lbs?

i’m not trying to bash, i just don’t think anyone should try to lead the life of ‘average’

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
the.israeli wrote:

Hell, I gotta give you an example…
While at boot-camp, we worked pushups 4-5 times a day. After a month and a half, I could do a first set of over 120 (slow and full range) xD Guess doing one exercise all the time really gets you into it. And… no - at the time it barely changed the size of my chest.

what?

LMAO.

dude i was trying to make a point. I max out pushups for the army pt test. (75 in two minutes) and could easily do 120 for ‘my first set’.

the.israeli wrote:

I bet anyone working on pushups can get straight 50 within a week.

and that’s EXACTLY my point! “anyone” could get 50 pushups, but can ‘anyone’ press 400lbs?

i’m not trying to bash, i just don’t think anyone should try to lead the life of ‘average’[/quote]

I remember a discussion that started from a youtube video, Matt Kroc doing 175lb dumbbell rows x29 I think. One boy started telling him “Don’t lean backwards, your gonna hurt and fuck up 4 life”. Then everyone bashed him and I asked him personally “Do you still think he’s wrong?” and he told me “Let him do whatever he wants, I wanna live longer than that showoffy douche”… what the.

I don’t think there’s a “line” per say, what there most likely is, though, is a level of “acceptable behavior vs possible outcomes”. There’s the old saying that when you’re young, you’re bulletproof. I hate to admit it, but when I got into my early 30’s, I realized that, sadly,I wasn’t anymore. I will note though, that while I can’t (or choose not to) lift weights I once did, my strength levels are still probably amongst the top percentage in my gym, and I would still proudly ‘put up’ against most any other gym folks (baring real geared up PLers of course -lol) any day of the week.

Realize though, that my current strength levels obviously reflect the degree to which I pushed myself when I was younger, and still building up my foundations. Have I DLed 5 plates? Sure. Squatted almost 600 ? Yep. Can I do it now? I would guess No, but more importantly, the risks greatly outweigh the benefits of even finding out (see where I’m going here?). If you’re young, and healthy, and have not suffered any serious injuries, then by all means step into the unknown.

Just remember… little steps! while big steps can = big results, no one ever expects a misstep, and accordingly, big missteps = big injuries).

S

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
the.israeli wrote:

Hell, I gotta give you an example…
While at boot-camp, we worked pushups 4-5 times a day. After a month and a half, I could do a first set of over 120 (slow and full range) xD Guess doing one exercise all the time really gets you into it. And… no - at the time it barely changed the size of my chest.

what?

LMAO.

dude i was trying to make a point. I max out pushups for the army pt test. (75 in two minutes) and could easily do 120 for ‘my first set’.
[/quote]

Wasn’t training before that time, at all… Army service around here is obligatory - they just take everyone. :stuck_out_tongue:

since hitting 2x bw bench, 1.5x bw mil press, 2.5x squat, etc, i kinda quit trying to improve weights and now play more with rep schemes and rarely go more than 70% of my 1rm on any exercise at this point. 2 ruptured discs and 3 herniations probably made this decision a bit easier.

[quote]the.israeli wrote:

Wasn’t training before that time, at all… Army service around here is obligatory - they just take everyone. :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

and this was me at officer basic, before i started ‘training’

what’s your point?

[quote]kunk75 wrote:
since hitting 2x bw bench, 1.5x bw mil press, 2.5x squat, etc, i kinda quit trying to improve weights and now play more with rep schemes and rarely go more than 70% of my 1rm on any exercise at this point. 2 ruptured discs and 3 herniations probably made this decision a bit easier.[/quote]

Damn bro this is exactly the kind of shit I was talking about. I wanna lift heavy and I want it to help my Bodybuilding and general health… But I really don’t wanna get 'em ruptured discs on the way. This is what I was saying: lifting heavy - great, herniated discs - fucking wrong. I would rather lift less and not live with such conditions for another 70 years =
Thing is - how does one know where his injury limit stands?
I can’t ask a doctor… He’ll me to stop deadlifting and go do some pussy cardio :frowning:

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
the.israeli wrote:

Wasn’t training before that time, at all… Army service around here is obligatory - they just take everyone. :stuck_out_tongue:

and this was me at officer basic, before i started ‘training’

what’s your point?[/quote]

Was out of shape back then, that’s all.
True some ppl can just do 'em 120 right off…
Reminds me of one guy who works as a security guard outside the gym were I train. Only does pullups/pushups all day at the park. Had him do some pressing. First time in his life benching and he nailed 225 for one rep (after a few warmup sets). Guy’s 5’6 weighing like 65kg.