T Nation

How Much Fruit is Too Much?


#1

Summer season is coming up and I'm ready to start doing a bit of cutting. I know there's a debate with the consumption of fruit. What I'm wondering is if there's a point where too much fructose is consumed.

My consumption of fruit M-F is
1 serving of each in the morning: blueberries, strawberries, cherries, and a banana

1 each with lunch: orange and a plum

In the evening I have frozen papaya and pineapple


#2

You’ll be fine. As long as you’re in a caloric deficit you’re good to go.


#3

there’s no debate over the consumption of fruit. eating fruit won’t harm you in any way. Eat as much fruit as you want, as long as it fits into your macros.


#4

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
Eat as much fruit as you want, as long as it fits into your macros.[/quote]


#5

This is such a vague question! It’s like asking how much lean meat is too much.


#6

The thing is, fruit is a wonderful source of all kinds of vitamins and phytochemicals. I know some people have been harping on how too much fruit may be “bad” for you because of sucrose and some other such crap, but too much of anything is bad for you.

What I am trying to get at is they will have a hard time convincing me the obesity problem is caused by people eating too many fruits. As long as you stay in a caloric deficit and you are getting enough protein and fats, eat as much fruit as you want.


#7

The advice that Charles gives is to limit fructose intake. Even though fruits are great foods loaded with nutrients, they also contain fructose. Fructose in too high quantities can slow down thyroid function and increase glycation. Glycation in layman’s term is browning, like the browning that makes crust in bread. Glycation is the cross linking of proteins (and DNA molecules) caused by sugar aldehydes reacting with the amino acids on the protein molecule and creating Advance Glycosylation End-products (AGE’s).

If you want to see protein cross linking in action, cut an apple in half and watch it turn yellow! Very few people realize that glucose can go through oxidation. Why is the worst glycation agent fructose? Because it does not raise insulin. In other words, the insulin is not getting it into muscle cells. Therefore, it lingers around and wreaks metabolic havoc.

As nutrition expert Robert Crayhon would say: fructose is like the guest that won’t go home once the party is over. Crayhon recommends that the average American should eat no more than 5-10 grams of fructose a day! For very active individuals, 20 grams of fructose should be the maximum intake. The actual amount of fructose in friuts varies so it actually isn’t as restrictive as it may sound.


#8

OK, fair point.

But most healthy, non-diabetic individuals can consume 2 to 3 fruits per day and be ABSOLUTELY FINE!


#9

Slightly off topic…I started adding 1-2 cups of blueberries and blackberries to my shakes each day and immediately noticed not only an increase in energy but also memory. Funny enough, yesterday I read an article touching on blueberries positive impacts on a person’s memory. Fructose is definately something to keep in mind but taking nutrient timing into consideration can pretty much eliminate that issue.


#10

Loroyals post is kind of what I was wondering about. I do know that Charles advocates limiting fructose intake. I’m normally eating 8 servings of fruit daily with the exception of Sat and Sunday. I’m in a caloric deficit but still not losing. I’m wondering if the amount of fructose I’m taking in is holding me back.


#11

Though I like the man, Charles Poliquin is NOT god or the world’s foremost nutrition authority!

MILLIONS of healthy people consumer two to three servings of fruit a day and I’m willing to bet all of my belongings and savings that this consumption of healthy food items is NOT having any deleterious effects on their health and functioning!


#12

[quote]celibrate2047 wrote:
Loroyals post is kind of what I was wondering about. I do know that Charles advocates limiting fructose intake. I’m normally eating 8 servings of fruit daily with the exception of Sat and Sunday. I’m in a caloric deficit but still not losing. I’m wondering if the amount of fructose I’m taking in is holding me back.
[/quote]

If you’re not losing then you’ve miscalculated your maintenance level.


#13

8 servings of fruit is a very high intake though, and I can’t see most guys doing well on that or a high starchy carb intake unless they have TONS of physical work to do and are genetically set up to use carbs well.


#14

[quote]celibrate2047 wrote:
I’m normally eating 8 servings of fruit daily with the exception of Sat and Sunday.[/quote]

Does that mean you the weekends are cheat days and you consume more servings/more food overall? Or you’re more relaxed and get less fruit?

Without knowing any other details of your diet or general training (which would help us give more accurate advice), my first instinct is to drop both fruits in the evening. Night time + sugar-based calories is not the road to 6PackAbsVille.

If that doesn’t spark some progress after a week or two, I’d drop one or two of the berries from the morning or drop one in the morning and the orange with lunch.

By the way, how the hell’ve you been? :slight_smile:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
MILLIONS of healthy people consumer two to three servings of fruit a day and I’m willing to bet all of my belongings and savings that this consumption of healthy food items is NOT having any deleterious effects on their health and functioning![/quote]

I have to generally agree with this. While micromanaging a client’s specific fructose intake may be effective, I have to think that at some point (especially in this case where we really don’t have many details about the whole situation), it’s borderline minutia that soaks up time and attention from other areas we could address to more effectively provide help.


#15

The best of both worlds is to obtain the beneficial phytonutrients without taking in the large amounts of associated sugar (including fructose.)

That said, I think it’s unwarranted to claim that fructose intake need be so extremely low as only 10 g/day (let alone 5 g/day), if there is also good intake of anti-glycation agents and antioxidants. Evidence based on rats drinking sugar water shouldn’t be considered to outweigh practical experience of man.


#16

[quote]laroyal wrote:
The advice that Charles gives is to limit fructose intake. Even though fruits are great foods loaded with nutrients, they also contain fructose. Fructose in too high quantities can slow down thyroid function and increase glycation. Glycation in layman’s term is browning, like the browning that makes crust in bread. Glycation is the cross linking of proteins (and DNA molecules) caused by sugar aldehydes reacting with the amino acids on the protein molecule and creating Advance Glycosylation End-products (AGE’s).

If you want to see protein cross linking in action, cut an apple in half and watch it turn yellow! Very few people realize that glucose can go through oxidation. Why is the worst glycation agent fructose? Because it does not raise insulin. In other words, the insulin is not getting it into muscle cells. Therefore, it lingers around and wreaks metabolic havoc.

As nutrition expert Robert Crayhon would say: fructose is like the guest that won’t go home once the party is over. Crayhon recommends that the average American should eat no more than 5-10 grams of fructose a day! For very active individuals, 20 grams of fructose should be the maximum intake. The actual amount of fructose in friuts varies so it actually isn’t as restrictive as it may sound.
[/quote]

Where to start with this? First off, glycation is the bonding of a sugar molecule (not just an aldehyde, and fructose is a ketone not an aldehyde) to a protein or lipid molecule without the aid of a controlling enzyme. And yes, glycation does result in the formation of Advanced Glycation Endproducts (I am assuming Advance Glycosylation End-products was a typo since I am pretty sure there is no such thing) and it occurs at a higher rate with fructose, but glycation will only occur with fructose after liver glycogen has been completely replenished,and even then only to a small extent, so unless there is a major surpluss of fructose, glycation is not a problem.

Also AGE’s are only a major concern for people who are already predisposed to diseases such as diabetes mallitus, Alzheimer’s, and cardiovascular disease. In other words, don’t concern yourself with glycation. As a side note, you seem to imply an apple browning is caused by glycation. Apples brown because when they are cut, cells are damaged and relese an enzyme called polyphenol oxidase or tyrosinase, wich interacs with oxygen causin an oxidation reaction which turns the apple brown(this is referred to as glycosylation) The major concern with fructose is the formation of triglycerides, which will only occur after liver glycogen stores have been replenished.

It is well known that liver glycogen stores are lowest in the morning so if you are really afraid of fructose, eat most of your high fructose fruits in the morning or after exercise. Also, before you think about cutting fruits to lower your fructose intake, first look at how much soda, fruit juice, table sugar, or any processed fructose you consume (I am not going to go into how processing affects isomers, but it does and not in a good way). If you consume any of those, than cut them out of your diet before you think about cutting fruits.


#17

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

Does that mean you the weekends are cheat days and you consume more servings/more food overall? Or you’re more relaxed and get less fruit? [quote]

Weekends are cheat days. At least Saturday is=beer, pizza, pancakes, beer, whatever else sounds good, and beer. Sunday is a lot more controlled as far as intake goes.

[quote]Without knowing any other details of your diet or general training (which would help us give more accurate advice), my first instinct is to drop both fruits in the evening. Night time + sugar-based calories is not the road to 6PackAbsVille.[quote]

6-6:30am is breakfast=1 serving of cherries, 1 serving of blueberries, 1 serving of strawberries, and 1 banana mixed in a blender with 20 oz water, 1 cup of milk, 1 cup of plain and unsweetened yogurt, and 2 scoops of whey protein.

Lunch is at 12 and is typically 1 cucumber, 1 bell pepper, 15-20 green olives, 2 ounces of pumpkin seeds, 2 ounces of almonds, 1 orange, 1 plum, and 12ish ounces of beef, chicken or 2 tins of tuna.

1:15 is when I lift weights 3 days a week. I’m currently doing Wendler’s 5/3/1 program. In the past I’ve pretty much stuck with WS4SB.

At 2:30 I have a cup of cottage cheese along with celery.

Then around 6:30ish I’ll have supper. It differs but always involves a salad. We don’t have fried foods cept on Saturdays. This is when the papaya and pineapple is eaten.

Monday and Weds evenings I play soccer. On Tues and Saturday, I have throwing practice for the Highland games.

Before bed, I’ll have either a couple scoops of protein or a cup of cottage cheese.

[quote]By the way, how the hell’ve you been? :)[quote]

I’ve been good but reallllly busy. I start in June working on my masters degree.


#18

Look, cheat days are fine every few weeks, but people tend to go overboard with them. The effects of a single cheat meal can surprise you, but an entire day of cheating withe pizza, fried foods, and alcohol, can set back your program by weeks. If you are trying to cut up, consider cutting out most of your cheating for a few (3-6) weeks. You may even find afterwards you don’t want them any more.

Before thinking about cutting back on fruits to lower fructose intake, try at least cutting out the alcohol. I try not to be too technical, but if you would like more info on hew alcohol affects your body’s ability to put on fat, PM me.


#19

" Apples brown because when they are cut, cells are damaged and relese an enzyme called polyphenol oxidase or tyrosinase, wich interacs with oxygen causin an oxidation reaction which turns the apple brown(this is referred to as glycosylation)."

I was wondering what enzymatic or non-enzymatic browning or the Maillard reaction had to do with all this.


#20

It really doesn’t but people seem to be using glycation as an excuse to further demonize sugars and carbs when in fact it has very little effect outside of people who are already at risk for those diseases, which is not that many. As for the apple thing, he misunderstood the difference between glycation and glycosylation and I was merely trying to educate. I apologize for not sticking to the topic.