How Much Does Lifting Help?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

Lifting weights and especially high numbers are completely irrelevant to MMA… actually, being good at chess would be more helpful than benching big weights… MMA is full of such examples… yes, some guys are decent fighters despite their nice big muscles, but they are decent just because they have developed skill and have inborn talent to fight, and not because they lift a lot… actually, very often guys have certain genetics and they look like they lift a lot when in fact for the most part it’s just the result of functional training and nutrition high in protein. Real fighters don’t care how much they lift if they lift at all… for example Fedor Emelianenko, for resistance exercises he basically did just body weight and similar exercises, and to be honest, his body by American standards looks awful… but all those impressive looking fighters who count on lifting big numbers have no chance against Emelianenko…

Lifting HEAVY weights confuses your punching motorics, you build the kind of muscles and strength that is very difficult or almost impossible to apply in fighting the opponent, it doesn’t help your wrestling either, it just allows you to stay on your legs stronger and stiffer, but without the quality for a quick unexpected maneuver to complement your skill. On the other hand if you lift seriously you have no way but just to seriously compromise your sparring, functional conditioning, and other more important aspects of training for MMA. Observation: punching is being affected by lifting heavy weights a lot, while low kicks don’t suffer almost at all! this is because a low kick is way simpler and more primitive movement than a punch.

When I finished my boxing career, I started lifting weights and liked it quite a bit , and I was trying to build some more functional muscles by also spending time hitting the bag, plyometrics etc… well, those just helped not to become like a real punching bag myself and fought against that stiffness and completely non functional muscle that comes with lifting heavy ass weights, although there wasn’t even thought about making progress in punching power. I don’t believe in heavy weights as lots of coaches don’t either.

22

I think the one exception to the rule is Alistair Overeem. He has stated that heavy lifting is an essential component to his MMA training, and he has the physique of a bodybuilder. Alistair is also the only MMA fighter to have earned a high-level kick-boxing championship (K-1) while holding an MMA championship as well…so the man can strike and his musculature doesn’t seem to hinder it.

Alistair was able to break down Brock Lesnar with his strikes in the first round where Shane Carwin could not. I still think with proper training, heavy strength training can compliment striking assuming it doesn’t hinder one’s striking speed. Keeping in mind Newton’s fundamental F = MA…having more mass with acceleration held constant means more force.

23

[quote]atfkao wrote:
I think the one exception to the rule is Alistair Overeem. He has stated that heavy lifting is an essential component to his MMA training, and he has the physique of a bodybuilder. Alistair is also the only MMA fighter to have earned a high-level kick-boxing championship (K-1) while holding an MMA championship as well…so the man can strike and his musculature doesn’t seem to hinder it.

Alistair was able to break down Brock Lesnar with his strikes in the first round where Shane Carwin could not. I still think with proper training, heavy strength training can compliment striking assuming it doesn’t hinder one’s striking speed. Keeping in mind Newton’s fundamental F = MA…having more mass with acceleration held constant means more force. [/quote]

Yes, body mass is very important for punching power… the strength in the meaning of a bench press isn’t though, because when striking you basically generate a movement of your body in the air, you don’t have to overcome almost any significant resistance and only a proper technique allows you to put all your body mass onto a target.

Hey, but then every professional boxer, MMA fighter etc. would body build with some help of steroids to become super heavyweight and start getting paid way bigger checks for their fights… but they don’t! because they know, if you aren’t naturally built to be a super heavyweight, building any significant muscle mass by lifting heavy weights will be an immediate end of their professional fighting careers.

It’s impossible to build a lot of high quality functional muscle. You can build maybe 10 pounds per three years from good diet, practicing your sport and functional exercises and that’s about it… There isn’t a magic pill as most young wannabe warriors would like to believe.

There are lots of myths and misinterpretations about lifting weights and fighting sports. For example people now will tell me look at Myke Tyson he looks like he lifted weights a lot… yes, an average white anglo saxon office worker from a good family in order to look like MT would have to lift like crazy for many many years… while look at Tyson’s short video fight when he was 16 y.o. kid ( I have just recently discovered online) and then you realize this guy was naturally build heavyweight, and his coach didn’t allow him to lift heavy at all.

Then Holyfield, hey, people say he did lift in the middle of his career, and can give you a link to one and same short clip where he lifts weight:)… of course, boxers and other fighters try to lift some weights here and there, as well as they swim in a pool sometimes, or even play chess… no matter what, just look at Holyfield’s hight, bone structure and you will realize this guy was also a natural heavyweight.

Yes yes, later in his career he moved one weight category up, but it happens also naturally, because if you eat enough protein, have normal genetics, with time you collect some more muscles just from functional conditioning training. And his training with Lee Haney is one of those misinterpretations and sounds like a joke, boxer being trained by bodybuilder:))

24

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
Yes, body mass is very important for punching power… the strength in the meaning of a bench press isn’t though, because when striking you basically generate a movement of your body in the air, you don’t have to overcome almost any significant resistance and only a proper technique allows you to put all your body mass onto a target.

Hey, but then every professional boxer, MMA fighter etc. would body build with some help of steroids to become super heavyweight and start getting paid way bigger checks for their fights… but they don’t! because they know, if you aren’t naturally built to be a super heavyweight, building any significant muscle mass by lifting heavy weights will be an immediate end of their professional fighting careers.
[/quote]

There’s a completely different reason for this I think. MMA is a weight class sport, if you gain too much bulk you’re suddenly facing way bigger opponents… Not ideal in most cases since you will probably have your best realitve strength at a lower weight. Also: Weight lifting is time spent away from technique drills. Sure, you could lift four days/week but you could also use that time to learn new techniques, spar etc.

That being said… I really hate this entire “non-functional muscle” bullshit. Muscle can potentially make you faster, more explosive and stronger - just don’t become a bodybuilder and waste your time with calf raises. Strength training is a tool for a combat athlete - a tool to build size and maximum strength. If both of these are satisfactory, focus on other parts of your game. If not… Do some and be careful not to make other aspects of your training suffer for it.

25

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
Yes, body mass is very important for punching power… the strength in the meaning of a bench press isn’t though, because when striking you basically generate a movement of your body in the air, you don’t have to overcome almost any significant resistance and only a proper technique allows you to put all your body mass onto a target.

Hey, but then every professional boxer, MMA fighter etc. would body build with some help of steroids to become super heavyweight and start getting paid way bigger checks for their fights… but they don’t! because they know, if you aren’t naturally built to be a super heavyweight, building any significant muscle mass by lifting heavy weights will be an immediate end of their professional fighting careers.
[/quote]

There’s a completely different reason for this I think. MMA is a weight class sport, if you gain too much bulk you’re suddenly facing way bigger opponents… Not ideal in most cases since you will probably have your best realitve strength at a lower weight. Also: Weight lifting is time spent away from technique drills. Sure, you could lift four days/week but you could also use that time to learn new techniques, spar etc.

That being said… I really hate this entire “non-functional muscle” bullshit. Muscle can potentially make you faster, more explosive and stronger - just don’t become a bodybuilder and waste your time with calf raises. Strength training is a tool for a combat athlete - a tool to build size and maximum strength. If both of these are satisfactory, focus on other parts of your game. If not… Do some and be careful not to make other aspects of your training suffer for it.
[/quote]

Yes, there are many tools to improve fighter’s conditioning, technique, explosiveness, endurance, timing and accuracy… However, the tool of lifting heavy weights in a fighter’s training routine is kind of similar to running three miles routine for an olympic weightlifter, and yes, they do run this distance sometimes…

On the other hand, I think this weight training and bodybuilding is more like a cultural thing in America and some other countries… while for example, lets say, in Thailand people smile and consider them being the same as fat when they see those guys with huge heavy weight muscles… and in muay thai camps in Thailand of course they never lift those heavy weights… similar story with russian fighters… There are other, way more beneficial and productive, resistance exercise routines for fighters…

26

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
Yes, body mass is very important for punching power… the strength in the meaning of a bench press isn’t though, because when striking you basically generate a movement of your body in the air, you don’t have to overcome almost any significant resistance and only a proper technique allows you to put all your body mass onto a target.

Hey, but then every professional boxer, MMA fighter etc. would body build with some help of steroids to become super heavyweight and start getting paid way bigger checks for their fights… but they don’t! because they know, if you aren’t naturally built to be a super heavyweight, building any significant muscle mass by lifting heavy weights will be an immediate end of their professional fighting careers.
[/quote]

There’s a completely different reason for this I think. MMA is a weight class sport, if you gain too much bulk you’re suddenly facing way bigger opponents… Not ideal in most cases since you will probably have your best realitve strength at a lower weight. Also: Weight lifting is time spent away from technique drills. Sure, you could lift four days/week but you could also use that time to learn new techniques, spar etc.

That being said… I really hate this entire “non-functional muscle” bullshit. Muscle can potentially make you faster, more explosive and stronger - just don’t become a bodybuilder and waste your time with calf raises. Strength training is a tool for a combat athlete - a tool to build size and maximum strength. If both of these are satisfactory, focus on other parts of your game. If not… Do some and be careful not to make other aspects of your training suffer for it.
[/quote]

Yes, there are many tools to improve fighter’s conditioning, technique, explosiveness, endurance, timing and accuracy… However, the tool of lifting heavy weights in a fighter’s training routine is kind of similar to running three miles routine for an olympic weightlifter, and yes, they do run this distance sometimes…

On the other hand, I think this weight training and bodybuilding is more like a cultural thing in America and some other countries… while for example, lets say, in Thailand people smile and consider them being the same as fat when they see those guys with huge heavy weight muscles… and in muay thai camps in Thailand of course they never lift those heavy weights… similar story with russian fighters… There are other, way more beneficial and productive, resistance exercise routines for fighters…
[/quote]

What are you saying?

27

[quote]Alex Good wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Do you train in anything? How about you walk in to a boxing/muay thai gym, or wrestling/judo/bjj place, etc and see how you fare?

That’ll answer your question.[/quote]

Considering fencing doesn’t help with unarmed combat Im obliged to say no. On the other hand I’ve gone against fighters who were quite a bit smaller than me and won so take from that what you will.[/quote]

My question was aimed at the OP.

28

I agree with Nighthawkz in that there is a certain point where increasing a combat athlete’s strength is silly (we don’t need a guy who fights at 185lbs to get his DL from 450-460lbs). To say strength doesn’t matter, even at the highest level, is wrong. Sure technique is more important, but there are times where just being a beast really really helps. Not as much for striking sports, though it still has its place, but def for wrestling and MMA. Even from the mental standpoint, if your opponent looks big and mean and feels like a vice grip when clinching with you, it can break you down especially if he has the conditioning to back it. Get you/your athlete big enough, strong enough and fluid in his/her motion. Then we can really work the technique, speed, peak cardio, and start really game-planning for fights