How Much Do You Lateral Raise?

I certainly understand the need for some arm bend to alleviate the strain on the forearm (believe me, I’ve felt it in the past when I used to go as heavy as I honestly could).

It just seems to me that if’s all a basic level principle (remember that from Middle school science? -lol), if you put the weight further out on the level (further past the fulcrum), it becomes more difficult as the perceived weight becomes more, even if the actual number on the dumbell isn’t very much.

I guess over the years (with the injuries I’ve accumulated), I’ve sought methods to stress my muscles without having to lift the heaviest weight possible (I also keep my arms at my sides when I do standing laterals… so there is no point where the muscles aren’t stressed, no resting point in front of my body like so many newer trainers seem to do).

S

My favorite is the people that bend their arm at 90* literally, and do the movement.

I do think that certain amount of swinging is inevitable if you are to go heavy. And it’s okay with those who have decent physiques and round shoulders. The swinging I dislike is those little newbies who have a training background of “monday and last saturday” and doing “lateral raises” with 30 lbs dumbbells. Heck, they can’t even bench press that weight for 6 reps, but they CAN make “lat raises” :smiley:

[quote]ghdtpdna wrote:
How the hell do you do 45’s? (just really curious)
[/quote]

I think Stu answered it. Form makes all the difference in the kind of weight you are able to move, and newbies using sucky form to impress the guy next to them are accomplishing just the opposite.

I was actually thinking about my lateral raise form in the gym this morning, and realized that it is a better shoulder isolation exercise to keep the forearm bent until the end of the lift. Until now, I’ve tried to use a straight arm form the whole range of the movement, but this actually limits your lifts according to your forearm strength.

usually do a pair of 55’s seated. arms locked straight and i try to reach as far outward as possible. i usually aim for a static hold on top (not very long though) and usually can to 6-8 str8 reps then go for 12?+ reps in rest pause fashion.

 -the big three-

bench 397 raw (new pr) with added 1 lb weights on each end
deadlift 535 raw (new pr) always been a strong puller
squat 505 belted, depth of hams lighty touching calves (seemingly need more centre strength to bring up)

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
It just seems to me that if’s all a basic level principle (remember that from Middle school science? -lol), if you put the weight further out on the level (further past the fulcrum), it becomes more difficult as the perceived weight becomes more, even if the actual number on the dumbell isn’t very much.
[/quote]

personally when i do lateral raises i only use a very slight bend in my elbow but like whats been said that’s just to reduce strain on the rest of my arm. as for keeping the arm straight i think a better reason would be to keep the weight in the same vertical plane as your shoulder.

when you put too much bend in your elbow you’re lifting the weight in a plane just in front of your body and while you’re still performing an abduction movement, its recruiting more of the anterior head. the elbow placement in relation to your shoulder joint is important too because that can target different portions of the delt.

so id say some bend can definitely be useful but too much and you compromising specifically targeting the medial delt

Body weight 205

Bench 310 x 1

Squat 405 x 1 ATG

Deadlift 440 x 2

Lateral raise 40’s with very slight momentum for six

30’s strict form for eight.

D

Used to do laterals up to 50lb for 5 - 8 reps.

Do not max out currently, but in the past

bench - 255, deadlift - 485, (parallel box w/ pause) squat 455

Wow, didn’t realize how terrible I am on this exercise. I have very long arms for my height but damn… Right now I use 25’s for 3x8, and that is with some body english and bent arms. I guess everyone is walking around with bowling balls for delts.

b- 305
s- 385
dl- 515

edit: wouldn’t it be more appropriate to ask people what their numbers for military press is instead of big three?

Hmm, Stu and X: can you find some youtube links of the forms you are describing? I’ve been curious about the best way of doing this movement. Currently I’m simply trying to copy Dorian Yates’ form in Blood & Guts. (Seated)

I have a feeling it’s going to take a long time to progress up the ladder on these. I’m currently using 33lb db’s for my work set, and if a guy like Stu is using no more than that there must be a world of difference in how we do them.

How do you guys feel about ramping up to one top set of these, as opposed to doing 2 or 3 top sets?

I bend my arms (about 30 degrees) and concentrate on lifting the elbows. I also try to leave the dumbbells in a position like I’m “pouring out a pitcher of water” (front plates of db’s lower than rear at top). When I really concentrate on this, I get a much greater burn in the medial delt.

Of course, I can’t always do this if I try to go heavy, although I probably should check the ego and lower the weight to concentrate on my form more…especially considering what the guys on here with impressive development are saying.

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:

How do you guys feel about ramping up to one top set of these, as opposed to doing 2 or 3 top sets?[/quote]

I personally do that, but more in a way that the 2nd to last set is actually decently fatiguing, and then on the final set I’ll move up 5lbs and throw in some body english, control the negatives as well as I can.

Another thing about laterals for me personally is that if I try to do perfect straight arm form, I find it harder to remove my traps from the movement. I tried concentrating on pushing outwards but it just wasn’t working. Bending the arms a bit helped me feel it better in the right place so that’s how I do it.

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, Stu and X: can you find some youtube links of the forms you are describing? I’ve been curious about the best way of doing this movement. Currently I’m simply trying to copy Dorian Yates’ form in Blood & Guts. (Seated)

I have a feeling it’s going to take a long time to progress up the ladder on these. I’m currently using 33lb db’s for my work set, and if a guy like Stu is using no more than that there must be a world of difference in how we do them.

How do you guys feel about ramping up to one top set of these, as opposed to doing 2 or 3 top sets?[/quote]

It’s not that I “can’t” use more weight, I simply choose not to. I feel like I get more out of it as a very strict movement, where I can really focus on the medial head. I always do them before my presses, so it also serves as a pre-exhaust in a way.

For the record, my “big 3 lifts”, are B-385, SQ-550, D-500, so it’s not that I handle low weights for everything, it’s just that I prefer to “bodybuild”, and not concern myself with actual weights anymore (I’ve had my days doing that, and have the nagging injuries to prove it -lol).

S

35-40lbs 45lbs not far off.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, Stu and X: can you find some youtube links of the forms you are describing? I’ve been curious about the best way of doing this movement. Currently I’m simply trying to copy Dorian Yates’ form in Blood & Guts. (Seated)

I have a feeling it’s going to take a long time to progress up the ladder on these. I’m currently using 33lb db’s for my work set, and if a guy like Stu is using no more than that there must be a world of difference in how we do them.

How do you guys feel about ramping up to one top set of these, as opposed to doing 2 or 3 top sets?

It’s not that I “can’t” use more weight, I simply choose not to. I feel like I get more out of it as a very strict movement, where I can really focus on the medial head. I always do them before my presses, so it also serves as a pre-exhaust in a way. For the record, my “big 3 lifts”, are B-385, SQ-550, D-500, so it’s not that I handle low weights for everything, it’s just that I prefer to “bodybuild”, and not concern myself with actual weights anymore (I’ve had my days doing that, and have the nagging injuries to prove it -lol).

S
[/quote]

For the record, there is a large difference between Stu’s development and mine. Stu is under 180lbs I believe. I would have to lose both legs to weigh that much again. That needs to be taken into consideration because the guy who can easily hit over 230lbs obviously won’t be stuck on only 35lbs dumbbells if his goal is really large shoulders.

My goal is basketball sized shoulders. Those don’t come from 35lbs dumbbells. I believe I moved past that number about 10 years ago or more.

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
I bend my arms (about 30 degrees) and concentrate on lifting the elbows. I also try to leave the dumbbells in a position like I’m “pouring out a pitcher of water” (front plates of db’s lower than rear at top). When I really concentrate on this, I get a much greater burn in the medial delt.

Of course, I can’t always do this if I try to go heavy, although I probably should check the ego and lower the weight to concentrate on my form more…especially considering what the guys on here with impressive development are saying.[/quote]

Same for me. That’s how I learned from reading up on proper form years ago in who knows what magazine. I remember it said like pouring milk from a pitcher and that’s what I call it if I teach someone to do it. ‘Pour the milk’ is what I tell em.

D

Lateral raises traditionally hit the traps more than anything. That is why many can lift some reasonable weight. But, if you take the traps out of it doing say an Incline Later Raise, you will find the true weight your delts can lift independently. Try it and see.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Lateral raises traditionally hit the traps more than anything. That is why many can lift some reasonable weight. But, if you take the traps out of it doing say an Incline Later Raise, you will find the true weight your delts can lift independently. Try it and see.[/quote]

I disagree. That position puts you at a disadvantage lifting ANY weight. Also, the traps are not the prime movers in doing a lateral raise unless you are actually raising the shoulders and not allowing your upper arm to move the most during the movement. I agree that some may see more trap involvement, but unless form is just terribly off, they shouldn’t be handling most of the force.

I see nothing wrong with isolating the shoulder like that IN ADDITION TO doing regular lateral raises. I often did standing single arm lateral raises which reduces the weight one can use, but this always came after the basics that produce more growth

One more thing…the more he leans over, the more that becomes a REAR DELT movement.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
For the record, there is a large difference between Stu’s development and mine. Stu is under 180lbs I believe. I would have to lose both legs to weigh that much again. That needs to be taken into consideration because the guy who can easily hit over 230lbs obviously won’t be stuck on only 35lbs dumbbells if his goal is really large shoulders.
[/quote]

Actually, although I was 170 for contest, I’m usually about 205. Actually crept back into the 190’s a few weeks ago :slight_smile:

Still, a guy X’s natural size is simply able to move more weight even when he’s not straining, or exerting himself. I’m certainly not arguing that everyone should do light weights for shoulder laterals, just that for the most part, it’s an isolation exercise, and really, how many f-cking threads do we get on here from younger (or just newer) trainers who complain about their development, but then feel obligated to tell us how much they lift?! That’s my point right there.

Again, Lately, I’ve been going heavier with laterals in an effort to really do something different, and yes, I am using cheating to my advantage. However, most people don’t understand the difference.

S

[quote]Professor X wrote:

For the record, there is a large difference between Stu’s development and mine. Stu is under 180lbs I believe. I would have to lose both legs to weigh that much again. That needs to be taken into consideration because the guy who can easily hit over 230lbs obviously won’t be stuck on only 35lbs dumbbells if his goal is really large shoulders.

My goal is basketball sized shoulders. Those don’t come from 35lbs dumbbells. I believe I moved past that number about 10 years ago or more.[/quote]

You thought that asking you two the same question indicates me thinking you two are at the same level of strength and development? Everyone who has been here for more than 5 minutes knows where you are at.

Anyway, I was interested in the differences between approaching lateral raises in a very strict fashion vs looser form with more weight. I also wanted to see if Stu maybe went for heavier weights before, but is in more of a “refining” modus now.

So, go for more weight/standing/bent arm raises at my early stage of development, or opt for the seated strict ones? That’s what I’m thinking about right now.