How Much Do PT's & Coaches Know?

LOL. Wait, why am I laughing? My friend and I started at separate gyms: I at a dingy 3rd story concrete block with no one around to tell me what to do, my friend at a Fitness First Health Club (which also has weights). He had a personal trainer on the first week, where I basically worked off information on the internet. I couldnt deadlift more than the bar, so I squatted with perfect form until my back strengthened up to a point where I could deadlift the bar, and so I did.

It took me 3 months to convince my friend to do deadlifts because his personal trainer told him it wasn’t a real exercise, and that you can snap your lower back muscles and tendons at ANY MOMENT when doing deadlifts, also they give you hernias. I was deadlifting 240lb by the time I convinced him to start doing deadlifts, and now almost a year later he is deadlifting much more than me because of his mesomorphic build and he is a BEAST (relative to what he used to be).

Determination, also, is a factor I consider better than any determinate information. This same friend had 2 accounts of improving himself beyond belief through the power of determination. In the time before he joined the ‘fitness club’, for his birthday he received a bench press and a bunch of weights. He struggled and bitched and grunted that weight just about 6 days a week all on his own, no spotter, no technique, no shit - he went from benching 66lb and weighing in at 264lb to benching 250lb, in one year, and thats when he thought ‘fuck this I am too fat’ and ran cardio 6 days a week, cut out all sodas and softdrinks and packet noodles, and lost 90lb!

THAT was when he joined Fitness First and his progress stalled. He has only recently been able to reverse the misconceptions that the fitness club told him, and bring back his determination, and now has lost another 20lb and put on 30lb of muscle. His journey is truly the path of a modern legend. He BROKE himself to achieve his GOALS, he walked through HELL, and then ROSE again to come out WISER than ever. Long may he live.

Reading this thread makes me realize how fortunate I am. The owner of my gym (also the sole employee / trainer) is an ex-college coach who spent his entire career teaching anatomy & physiology and the like. When I’ve asked for advice I get something that sounds very much like something I might have read here. E.g., I had this conversation with him a few months ago:

“Unfortunately I’ve bought into the anti-deadlift cult my entire life but I think I really need to add them to my routine now. Could you please help me learn the proper form?”
“Why do you want to deadlift?”
“Is there a better single exercise for back strength / mass? If there is I’ll do that instead.”
“OK, let’s make sure your form is correct.”

That’s about par for the course here so I suppose there are little islands of sanity left out there if you look for them. :wink:

[quote]Sir wrote:
You have to realize something, the classes and the exams you take to become a PT are there to teach you how to help the average joe and the out of shape soccer moms.

If you want to be an internationally recognized trainer you’re going to have to do your own studying/research and testing on yourself and willing trainees.

Commercial gyms are full of idiot PTs who don’t know shit. Also, if I were to ever get a PT I’d want someone who looked the role and who knew more than me. So many damn times after going home for summer and joining one of the local gyms for the two month break will I keep getting bothered if I want a free personal training program and each time I say no. Why? Because the trainers are smaller then me and know less as is evident when I hear them talking to the 46yr old stay at home mom who wants to tighten up but refuses to lift weights.

Fucking idiots.[/quote]

One problem with this. “I’d want someone who looked the role”. Why? I am going to be honest with you Im a trainer and jacked, 6’4" 215 could have more muscle on me for sure. But there is a trainer who works with me and is 6’2" 250. He is absolutely ripped. Several times people have wanted to train with him during times he is not available and I have offered and they have declined.

This large guy?

1- Juices
2- Does not known correct form for squats and deadlifts, always complaining his back hurts for some reason.

That whole that guy looks good he must know what he is doing is the biggest bunch of bullshit there is. Professor X will dispute me but you dont really have to know what you are doing to get huge if you are juicing.

That sounds like a pretty bitter perspective… haha

i am studying to become a personal trainer myself. i have the ACE home study set. i have compleated all of the materials, but i still feel like i need to know more! any suggestions?

Be realistic, people who are serious about training generally don’t use a PT at the gym.

At my gym their “advice” seems entirely focused on “safety” and the “core”. This largely involves wood choppers with the cable station, balancing on balls, sit-ups and taking up a whole lot of space in the gym.

I’ve yet to see anyone use a PT for more that 3 sessions.

This can be applied to any field, but if you get someone who doesn’t continue their education by reading books and keeping up to date on the new theories in the field, WHILE practicing what they preach and trying the new theories through trial and error to see what works and what doesn’t…you will get an idiot who is sub-par in their field.

Most people in general are too lazy to continue their education and in an ever changing field like personal training, you can fall far behind very quickly.

All those beliefs mentioned are old myths and anyone intelligent should realize this.

[quote]viking666 wrote:
What about the current trend of obese trainers?[/quote]

No shit. When I train at my local gym(not my college one), I can’t even do barbell bench because the trainers are too weak to spot me. They can’t even give me a liftoff, its ridiculous.

The ones the OP listed aren’t all that horrible. Ive heard much much worse. The fitness industry is starting to disgust me, so I may have to move into a new industry. At the gym I train, im basically being told I dont train my clients the right way, because I dont do all the flashy “functional” exercises that Pt’s are supposed to do. I dont have people doing shoulder presses while standing on one leg, so I must not know what im doing.

You know what one I like the most, and I see it all the time, is the combination shoulder press / row. One arm is doing a db shoulder press while the other is simultaneously doing a cable row. (IS THIS FUNCTIONAL)

And the diets I see given to obese individuals are sad. 60% carbs for an individual with 40+% BF is just neglegent IMO.

I really think the government needs to step in here, and be more strick on certification agencies. And there needs to be manditory retests, and continuing education for all trainers. But that will never happen.

We could rant all day about how pathetic things are, but it wont do anything, because these idiot trainers are never going to take the time to read T-Nation or any other recent material.

[quote]dankid wrote:
I really think the government needs to step in here, and be more strick on certification agencies. And there needs to be manditory retests, and continuing education for all trainers. But that will never happen.[/quote]

Oh, the government will be sure to get it right regarding exercise.

[quote]b_to_the_runs06 wrote:
i am studying to become a personal trainer myself. i have the ACE home study set. i have compleated all of the materials, but i still feel like i need to know more! any suggestions?[/quote]

Continue reading forever. You’ll NEVER know enough. And continue to get more certifications. Some of it will come from experience, but some of it will only come from continuing to learn more and more.

I myself have a bachelor’s degree and am working on a master’s degree and still need to know a lot more.

[quote]dankid wrote:
The ones the OP listed aren’t all that horrible. Ive heard much much worse. The fitness industry is starting to disgust me, so I may have to move into a new industry. At the gym I train, im basically being told I dont train my clients the right way, because I dont do all the flashy “functional” exercises that Pt’s are supposed to do. I dont have people doing shoulder presses while standing on one leg, so I must not know what im doing.

You know what one I like the most, and I see it all the time, is the combination shoulder press / row. One arm is doing a db shoulder press while the other is simultaneously doing a cable row. (IS THIS FUNCTIONAL)

And the diets I see given to obese individuals are sad. 60% carbs for an individual with 40+% BF is just neglegent IMO.

I really think the government needs to step in here, and be more strick on certification agencies. And there needs to be manditory retests, and continuing education for all trainers. But that will never happen.

We could rant all day about how pathetic things are, but it wont do anything, because these idiot trainers are never going to take the time to read T-Nation or any other recent material.[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what you said (wow, did I really just say that? j/k), but from my experience (I’m also certified and have a degree in exercise science) certification agencies focus on the minor, not all that relevant aspects of training and usually don’t focus much at all on the major, most relevant aspects. And, as Bill suggested above, the government would likely do the same.

For instance I never saw any questions, or took any courses on how to actually teach someone how to perform a movement. How to address the different kinds of learners (visual, audible, kinesthetic, tactile, etc…) and be able to teach them in terms that they can relate to.

I never was taught how to adjust a program based on physical limitations that an individual might have and yet still get results from their training. The dietary courses that I took were a complete joke when it came to the nutritional needs of an athlete (or even the average person who wants to improve body comp for that matter).

Instead there were lots of questions/courses on being able to name all of the bones/muscles in the body, physiological systems like the digestive system, nervous system, endocrine system, etc…, the various energy systems in the body, etc…etc…etc…

Now, don’t get me wrong, having an understanding of these systems and this knowledge can be helpful and applicable to training. But the average person, or athlete doesn’t really care if you can tell them where the Semimembranosus has it’s origin and insertion, they really only care that you can get them to their goals. None of the major certification agencies (that I’ve seen anyhow) put enough emphasis on this IMO.

I’m taking a PT class at my CC, with the cert from NCSF. Upon enrolling, I was doing it for the cert only, but I found out at my first class that one of my professor’s is a S&C coach at a state school who squats 680 and has benched over 500. The other one is the womens’ track coach who, from what I’ve heard (from the other prof), has made excellent athletes.

I’m pretty excited for the class, considering how much I can learn from both of them. I also consider myself lucky that I can learn from people who know what they’re talking about.

My sports nutrition class is a joke, though. One professor said “The body absorbs everything you eat, it just needs to figure out where it goes.” And the other one is fat.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
dankid wrote:
I really think the government needs to step in here, and be more strick on certification agencies. And there needs to be manditory retests, and continuing education for all trainers. But that will never happen.

Oh, the government will be sure to get it right regarding exercise.[/quote]

HAHAHA!

alot of commercial gyms dont have high enough standards to hire trainers. as long as you have some cert that you do over the weekend, have insurance, can take BP and perform a “sit, reach hold test” is ample to them.

there are very few institutions that offer a variety of education and that are up to date. i went to one as we learn a hell of alot but most was outdated

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you said (wow, did I really just say that? j/k), but from my experience (I’m also certified and have a degree in exercise science) certification agencies focus on the minor, not all that relevant aspects of training and usually don’t focus much at all on the major, most relevant aspects. And, as Bill suggested above, the government would likely do the same.

For instance I never saw any questions, or took any courses on how to actually teach someone how to perform a movement.

How to address the different kinds of learners (visual, audible, kinesthetic, tactile, etc…) and be able to teach them in terms that they can relate to.

I never was taught how to adjust a program based on physical limitations that an individual might have and yet still get results from their training. The dietary courses that I took were a complete joke when it came to the nutritional needs of an athlete (or even the average person who wants to improve body comp for that matter).

Instead there were lots of questions/courses on being able to name all of the bones/muscles in the body, physiological systems like the digestive system, nervous system, endocrine system, etc…, the various energy systems in the body, etc…etc…etc…

Now, don’t get me wrong, having an understanding of these systems and this knowledge can be helpful and applicable to training. But the average person, or athlete doesn’t really care if you can tell them where the Semimembranosus has it’s origin and insertion, they really only care that you can get them to their goals. None of the major certification agencies (that I’ve seen anyhow) put enough emphasis on this IMO.[/quote]

I agree sentoguy. I will say that my college was decent in giving enough information and basic knowledge so that if you wish to continue further in the field you would be able to. I did take a class on adjusting exercise for individuals with different “conditions” which I think all trainers should be required.

For the most part I agree that schools, and agencies focus on the major/basic information, and thats fine, but I think as a trainer, you should be required to further your knowledge within the next 1-3 years. It could be further reading with another test, or maybe some form of research paper (like a mini-thesis).

I know this would never happen, but if I was ever running my own gym, it would be mandatory.

The biggest problem I have found with my schooling at the university, is that the information is very outdated. There have been huge developments in the science of exercise and health in the past decade, and it seemed as if most of what I was tought came from the 70’s.

My biggest complaint with most certification agencies, is that they tend to follow the trends, and this is where the typical commercial gym / hollywood trainer comes from.

These agencies thrive off specializing in courses for “functional training” or “core” training, and it leeches down into the industry. Luckily I didn’t see much of this in school.

My last big complaint is the notion that training is an art, and not a science. This is arguable, and I know it depends on the type of person, but I feel very strongly that 99% of training is a science. This is why understanding physiology and mechanics of the body and exercise is so important. The other 1% can be considered an art, but really you dont need to be that creative to train someone correctly.

I dont think the industry is getting any worse, but it certainly isn’t getting any better, and likely wont anytime soon.

I’m currently and Exercise Science student as well as a PT. I will admit I am not the biggest, leanest, or strongest guy in the world but I can hold my own. As a student I have been lucky to have very informed and educated professors:

  1. Exercise Physiology professor was a powerlifter and squatted 900, benched in the 500s, and dealifted in the 700s

  2. Advanced weight training professor was competitive bodybuilder and played football at UCLA

  3. Had several registered dieticians and 1 biomechanist

As a trainer I have not had the privilege of working with very many capable people:

  1. One trainer is a chiropractor and a sports performance coach. Good trainer!!!

  2. None of the other trainers could explain an aerobic threshold or a general linear periodization program.

  3. Many of the trainers only do leg workouts with machines.

My clients:

  1. Squat, deadlift, bench press, split squat, pullup, and do mobility work.

  2. Programs are based off WS4SB template with manipulation of sets and reps.

  3. Do not use the smith machine unless doing ballistic bench press.

[quote]ungs9 wrote:
I would like to contribute to this thread:
It is not the personal trainers’ fault that they are all stupid. It is how they were taught. True story: I go to a school in Minnesota and I am a health fitness major.

I fully intend on being a personal trainer when I graduate. Last semester I enrolled in a class entitled Personal Training taken with my advisor, a man who has a masters degree in kinesiology.

The class is intended to ready everyone that takes it to be able to pass the NSCA exam for being a certified personal trainer. I have worked in a gym and been instructed in most lifts by a pretty knowledgeable Physical Therapist who owns the gym. I also have played high school and college football, high school track and field , and high school basketball.

I have been an avid T-Nation reader for about 2 years, and I have to admit I have been reading Muscle and Fitness since I was about 15.

I was forced to drop this class because of pure stupidity from the professor and the information presented in the course textbooks. Obviously a portion of the class was in the weight room, and on the first day there we were shown the following lifts in this order:

Upright rows, Box Step ups, Triceps Extensions, and Dumbell Rows. He also pointed to the leg press machine and said that one is self explanatory and can be used to grow your legs.

No mention of Squats, Bench or Deadlifts. No Olymic lifts- no snatches, jerks, cleans nothing. We were recommended to stick to sets consisting of at least 10 reps with a light weight that could be controlled throughout. Also we were told to focus on cardio for fat loss.

I am now transferring schools and plan on being an exercise science major at a state school in my area. If anyone knows which certifications are the most respected, contain the most USEFUL information I would be happy to hear it, because I was not impressed with the information presented in the NSCA handbook. [/quote]

i worked for Bally’s for about a week.

utter fucking stupidity and interestingly Ballys has a really high turnover for employees, i havent seen anyone from instruction classes who remained and theres always some new employee. annnnnnnyway, i got into shit with this 120 pound seabiscuit looking motherfucker who got all hot and bothered anytime i questioned his methods.

for example, we were talking about training and they wanted to use a medicine ball, pick it up off the ground and put it over head which to them was a deadlift+OHP. i said, why wouldnt you just train them seperately because you cant get an effective deadlift out of a weight you can OHP, they basically insinuated it was the dumbest thing ever and they talked about some shit of how the body “works as one muscle” or someshit, i swear these guys were just making shit up.

i also got spoke to infront of the entire group because when we were training each other for this 1 on 1 thing i was CGBPing with 225 and apparently thats “too much weight”, the guy seriously said we arent allowed to train people with over 60 pounds.

oh and about the deadlifting, Ballys likes to get people deadlifting but they dont know how to deadlift for shit. i see trainers w/ the most horrendus form all the time and it isnt like theyre setting a 1RM PR its rep work w/ 115 …from a 225 pound person.

My coaches have been amazing from the start.

Rowing coach got me into lifting in grade 10. First lifts ever learned? Deadlift and Squat.

Current coach was an Olympic Weightlifter with over 30 years under the bar and has NCCP Level 3. I do not step out of the training hall without learning something new everyday.

Passionate coaches drive their athletes to levels the athletes are unable to achieve on their own.

Ive never heard of Aerobic threshold. Ive know what the anaerobic threshold is, but as far as im concerned there is no such thing as aerobic threshold.