Deadlifting to “deload” your back is one of the silliest ideas I’ve heard.
[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
Deadlifting to “deload” your back is one of the silliest ideas I’ve heard.[/quote]
Not if you do it upside down!
[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
Deadlifting to “deload” your back is one of the silliest ideas I’ve heard.[/quote]
Is the bar on your spinal column? No. Don’t confuse a back off week with keeping weight off your your vertebrae.
I think many elite bbers would disagree with this statement.
[quote]BIG_DAWS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I would never rely on deadlifts for the majority of any mass built on my upper back.
I think many elite bbers would disagree with this statement.
[/quote]
That I would never rely on deadlifts for the majority of the mass on my back? Did you know that Lee Haney didn’t do deadlifts and promoted the T-Bar row over doing them? Does he count in your “many elite”? Why would most elite bodybuilders disagree about my own development? That is worst than saying Ronnie Coleman is doing dumbbell presses wrong because he doesn’t lock out. I am sure many people disagree with that also.
Dave Galledgo and his, I assume, deadlifter-spine. 
Sorry for sounding stupid, but how does Barbbell Rows etc work the spine (except as a stabilisator)? And how come they are good for getting big spines, according to some here?
spine erectors aren’t your entire back.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BIG_DAWS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I would never rely on deadlifts for the majority of any mass built on my upper back.
I think many elite bbers would disagree with this statement.
That I would never rely on deadlifts for the majority of the mass on my back? Did you know that Lee Haney didn’t do deadlifts and promoted the T-Bar row over doing them? Does he count in your “many elite”? Why would most elite bodybuilders disagree about my own development? That is worst than saying Ronnie Coleman is doing dumbbell presses wrong because he doesn’t lock out. I am sure many people disagree with that also.[/quote]
i agree with you saying that you need a combination of back movements to build a big freaky back. I am simply stating that if the vast majority of bbers could only chose 1 back movement, they would chose deadlifts.
Lee Haney is 1 example of an elite bber who may not have used them. Franco Colombo (who may have the best back of all time), Ronnie, Johnnie Jackson, (the list goes on and on) all use deadlifts as the foundation of their back developement.
[quote]BIG_DAWS wrote:
Lee Haney is 1 example of an elite bber who may not have used them. Franco Colombo (who may have the best back of all time), Ronnie, Johnnie Jackson, (the list goes on and on) all use deadlifts as the foundation of their back developement. [/quote]
Lee Haney is one pretty damned large example considering the number of times he won that Olympia trophy, most of it credited to his back development. I specifically wrote previously that I am not against people doing the deadlift and am not degrading the movement.
I wrote that it is overhyped and is not necessary. Obviously it is NOT necessary if one of the more famous pro bodybuilders in history didn’t rely on it fully for most of his development.
What does that tell us? Only that different strokes…fuck it, you know the rest.
So, if you like doing the deadlift, keep doing the deadlift. I take my position based on what I see in terms of results for myself. I haven’t written anywhere that I am trying to get anyone else to train just like me.
I am, however, stating that this group mentality where it is now the in thing to avoid all isolation exercises or that EVERYONE simply NEEDS to do deadlifts shows it may be time for more to think for themselves.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
spine erectors aren’t your entire back.[/quote]
I know, but they are indeed a big part of your back none-the-less, and I don’t think they would get enough stimuli from hyper-extensions and as stabilisator. So just askin’ 
It depends upon your height and leverages as to how much the deadlift will work for your back development. Recently I decided to prioritize my back working it 3 times a week. To be honest I never really felt anything in my back aside from my spinal erectors getting worked when I deadlifted.
Then I decided to dead AFTER doing a ladder workout of wide grip pullups. I also followed the EXACT instructions that Pavel Tsatsouline gave in Power to the People on how to dead.
Head up, crush the bar to a pulp, flex your triceps, stick your ass back as far as possible to stretch the hamstrings like a spring, squeeze the bar off the ground, and imagine you are pushing your feet into the ground.
I started at half of what I can max deadlift with the standard grip and kept the reps to no more than 5. Rested 2 min. between sets and stopped when my form begin to get sloppy. Man, the next day my WHOLE back was smoked. It felt great. Give this a try a let me know what you think.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BIG_DAWS wrote:
Lee Haney is 1 example of an elite bber who may not have used them. Franco Colombo (who may have the best back of all time), Ronnie, Johnnie Jackson, (the list goes on and on) all use deadlifts as the foundation of their back developement.
Lee Haney is one pretty damned large example considering the number of times he won that Olympia trophy, most of it credited to his back development. I specifically wrote previously that I am not against people doing the deadlift and am not degrading the movement.
I wrote that it is overhyped and is not necessary. Obviously it is NOT necessary if one of the more famous pro bodybuilders in history didn’t rely on it fully for most of his development.
What does that tell us? Only that different strokes…fuck it, you know the rest.
So, if you like doing the deadlift, keep doing the deadlift. I take my position based on what I see in terms of results for myself. I haven’t written anywhere that I am trying to get anyone else to train just like me.
I am, however, stating that this group mentality where it is now the in thing to avoid all isolation exercises or that EVERYONE simply NEEDS to do deadlifts shows it may be time for more to think for themselves.[/quote]
i was just trying to play a little devil’s advocate here. If you dont do deads and still have a freaky back, great. But i would still say the majority of ppl with freaky backs use deadlifts in their routine. You say u dont deadlift, have u ever considered throwing it into your routine for a few weeks or months and see where it stands then?
Many people tend to neglect their weakness and work hard on what they already have as a strength. I am certainly not saying that you, Professor, are a victim of this, but i am saying that i have seen many people in many different gyms focus on what their good at rather than what they need to focus on.
Many people dont deadlift, (again i am not saying you professor), because it is too difficult or too much hastle when they could just move a pin and do seated rows or pulldowns, or just walk over to a bar and start doing pullups. Deadlifts require a great strain on the body which many people do not want to do.
[quote]kroby wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
Totally disagree.
I don’t think one “back” movement (deadlift, chins, rowing) are better than the other…but in my opinion ALL 3 are needed to be done to cover the back development basis. Yes there is overlap in the movements, but overlap CAN be a good thing. It is for me.
I really don’t think I stated that just one exercise is better than any other. Doing them all is the best recipe for success. Doing deads alone will not develop a back like doing many exercises for the back. Does that clear things up? For instance, I did conventional and sumo deads yesterday. Today, I did barbell rows, widegrip pull downs, cable rows and dumb bell rows.
Tomorrow, I’ll do some horizontal lateral raises. That, my friend, is a back assault.[/quote]
Dude, sorry if it seemed I was getting on you…I wasn’t. I agree with your statement about doing many excercises for complete development; that was also what I was trying to say. We’re on the same page! : )
Prof X has been training for a very long time and has been at a point in his lifting journey where he knows what works for him and what is wasted time.
I too have been training for a very long time and I too believe I know what my body needs as far as training is concerned.
Prof X has good mass from rowing and pulldowns. He gets good trap and spinal erector development from just doing these movements.
I, on the other hand, NEED to do deadlifts to supplement my rowing and chinning. This is because my spinal erectors and basic back thickness suffer if I don’t do them (and there was a very long period where I didn’t do ANY deadlifting).
I think there are many people who have the genetic makeup of Prof X who only need to do a few movements to get full quality development. Then there are those like me who really do need the deadlift to add that something special.
People are just different; and they need to find the right movements for themselves. There really are no absolutes in training.
All I know is that I used to workout without doing any dealifting at all, because I was scared of hurting myself (how dumb was I?!?!).
then I grew a pair and started deadlifting, within weeks many people started saying I had put on size, and I was noticing a big increase in thickness and trap development.
I’d never rely on deadlift alone for my back development, but it is the cornerstone of my back workout and will remain so.
The prevailling (and entirely predictable) opinion seems to be that you must use a variety of movements to sufficiently train your back, incorporating rows and chins, pullups, pulldowns and deadlifts.
For me, too many people have derived too much benefit from deadlifts for me to leave them out.
Plus it just feels great ripping a big (relatively 
weight off the floor.
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
Prof X has been training for a very long time and has been at a point in his lifting journey where he knows what works for him and what is wasted time.
[/quote]
I wouldnt call deadlifts a waste of time for ANYBODY (except one who has no legs or arms)
[quote]kroby wrote:
rmccart1 wrote:
Deadlifting to “deload” your back is one of the silliest ideas I’ve heard.
Is the bar on your spinal column? No. Don’t confuse a back off week with keeping weight off your your vertebrae.[/quote]
You need to think about the physics of this a little more. The bar is not on your spine in a deadlift, but the LOAD still is.
How else is the force getting from your legs to the bar?
[quote]BIG_DAWS wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
Prof X has been training for a very long time and has been at a point in his lifting journey where he knows what works for him and what is wasted time.
I wouldnt call deadlifts a waste of time for ANYBODY (except one who has no legs or arms)
[/quote]
Big Daws, Don’t wear yourself out on these boards. These dudes say crazy shit. The kids asks about DL’s and gets told about other exercises. We know the purpose of DL’s.
I haven’t done shrugs in a year or 2. I speed pull every week and Heavy Pull once a month. My traps and back are pretty good. I have no neck. I’m an 600+ DL w/ an 800+ Sqt. HMMMM…
[quote]DTLV wrote:
kroby wrote:
rmccart1 wrote:
Deadlifting to “deload” your back is one of the silliest ideas I’ve heard.
Is the bar on your spinal column? No. Don’t confuse a back off week with keeping weight off your your vertebrae.
You need to think about the physics of this a little more. The bar is not on your spine in a deadlift, but the LOAD still is.[/quote]
Yes, the LOAD is equally divided from both shoulders through the clavicles, scapulae, ribcage and spinal column. There is no acute compression on the cervical vertebrae.
Besides, the the load is on your shoulders, core muscles, and lats as well as your posterior chain, comprised of your glutes, hamstrings and spinal erectors. Again, not on the cervical vertebrae.
The back squat rests the bar and all of it’s weight on the cervical vertebrae exclusively. The active muscles moving the weight are far away, on the lower body, being the quads, hamstrings and glutes.
You notice that there is no load sharing like the dead lift. This is how you de-load while lifting heavy. Besides, I used to back squat and dead lift twice a week for years. Changing up to squat three times a week and dead lift once a month is VERY MUCH a de-loading program.
[quote]How else is the force getting from your legs to the bar?[/quote] I covered this above, but I’ll reiterate. The force is channeled through your legs, primarily through the posterior chain through your lats, abdominals and spinal erectors to your shoulders and arms.
Quite a sharing of load, wouldn’t you say? Is the weight on your neck? Is it impinging directly ON the spinal column? No.
I’m glad I was able to make this crystal clear, and I hope you learned something.
[quote]BIG_DAWS wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
Prof X has been training for a very long time and has been at a point in his lifting journey where he knows what works for him and what is wasted time.
I wouldnt call deadlifts a waste of time for ANYBODY (except one who has no legs or arms)
[/quote]
Well, they sure are not wasted time for me. Read my post again. I agree with you on your viewpoint with regards to the numerous benefits of the deadlift.
But if one, like Prof X and folks like him, already has alot of good mass there is no reason to do additional movements.
Solely depends on what your goals are I think.
[quote]Gatorarmz wrote:
BIG_DAWS wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
Prof X has been training for a very long time and has been at a point in his lifting journey where he knows what works for him and what is wasted time.
I wouldnt call deadlifts a waste of time for ANYBODY (except one who has no legs or arms)
Big Daws, Don’t wear yourself out on these boards. These dudes say crazy shit. The kids asks about DL’s and gets told about other exercises. We know the purpose of DL’s.
I haven’t done shrugs in a year or 2. I speed pull every week and Heavy Pull once a month. My traps and back are pretty good. I have no neck. I’m an 600+ DL w/ an 800+ Sqt. HMMMM…
[/quote]
That doesn’t prove a thing. Just because you happen to be so awesome, it doesn’t mean what you do will work for everyone else.
What is “your” definition of what the “purpose” of DL are for?
There is nothing wrong with indicating other movements as they pertain to overall back development. The original poster was asking about if deadlifts work the entire back. I’m indicating that for folks like me, the deadlift alone doesn’t “do it all”, but a combination does.