How Much Did Boyer Gain?

It just goes to show the difference of training for size vs strength (really just getting ‘better’ at performing on certain moves - neurological). When Coe trained like a bodybuilder, he got even bigger. It’s also apparent to me Coe was not juiced up looking at those Nautilus videos while working for Jones. He’s A LOT smaller and more natural looking. Looking at his competitions, it’s apparent he was on steroids…as he openly admitted. But so was every other bodybuilder at the top contests as you have to take lots of drugs to even the playing field and stick with the competition.

Coe said in a later interview…his best routine was a 3-way split used for the Mr. O Masters…a routine similar to what Yates used. It involved more sets and high intensity, but NOT crazy/ultra intensity…and not super short rests between sets/exercises.

Of course, what these guys were taking in the 70s and 80s was like candy compared to what guys in more recent years have taken to get to ridiculous size and looks…and bloated looking to put it nicely. I had a good conversation with Mentzer about this in the 1990s. Of course, the guys in the 90s look mild now compared to the guys today.

Perhaps Scotty can contact Grant for his version?

==Scotty==
Ok, ATP , or Grant, as long as we are talking nonsense , I congratulate Dr Darden, Dr. McGuff, John Little , you and possibly MGruff the crime dog for keeping the emphasis on cardio! Ha ha! Remember pictures don’t lie.

Speaking of photographic evidence: Compare the picture of Boyer on the cover of the Advanced Bodybuilding book, to the video where he is trained by Jones. The arm on the cover looks a lot bigger and more defined than the arm of the guy in the video. Were these taken a different times? Or is this a tribute to the effect of lighting, pumping up, and oiling up on how big you look? Pictures don’t lie, except when they do.

1 Like

What I’d like to know is how Boyer trained when he benched 420 at 17. I remember at 17 I had been training a couple of years and at best I could bench 250. Now friends of mine were benching 350 or so at about 180 pounds but they took DB . One kid was benching over 400 but he was a strong as an ox Polish dude weighing about 230. All my friends with Ski in their name were strong as hell! If I remember correctly Boyer took DB to aid his progress . Boyer’s arms must have been huge even then!
I think I read something about Boyer getting into dips and chins early on and being able to do one arm chins at a young age. It seems like a lot of these greats show a high propensity for strength and muscle at a very early age, like Viator. I often wonder how many average guys like me actually ever go on to display large competition size and strength in their later years that didn’t show great potential early on. Probably very few?
Scott

All thru the years Dr. Darden has been very consistent with his writings and storytelling of what happened during the Jones/Nautilus era…therefore, I trust what he implies here when it comes to training Boyer or anyone else for that matter

I don’t think he’s trying to discredit Darden in any way any more than I am. I simply posted what someone said Boyer Coe said. It’s up to you to believe what you want. I think it’s pretty clear many big time bodybuilders didn’t like Jones way of working out . Very few competitive bodybuilders ever followed Jones way except for a few . It’s possible Boyer was one of those.
It would have been interesting to see how Nautilus would have done had Jones not stumbled onto a genetic freak like Casey who he could use to promote his ways and machines. He brought the likes of Arnold and Sergio and most likely others to Nautilus to try and use them to promote his machines or ways but It seems they weren’t thrilled with them.
Scott

Seems to be your answer to most. Take a hint already

Speaking of 20 lbs muscle gain…

John “Mr America” Heart just posted a video where he talks about how he gained 20+ lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks.

Step #1: Get Covid and lose 20+ lbs of muscle mass during your illness.

Step #2: Resume eating and training.

Sort of tangential, but it does highlight the relative ease of regaining lost muscle…

He must have been very ill. That is a lot of weight to lose and he was/is not a “big” guy. But, yeah, create a new Colorado experiment out of it, ha.

Bill Phillips?

Why don’t you all try the Colorado experiment or as close as you can mimic the workout without losing weight first…it will only take about 6 weeks, what have you got to lose

Then you can see for yourself if any muscle gains come from it

fitafter40,

So, last summer (2020) I kind of did one. I was very low in bodyfat, but lost some muscle as a result. I upped my calories (re)gaining about 15 pounds half of which measured into lean mass using skin calipers, scale, tape measure, and Tanita scale BF measurement. I used a full body workout, 3 days a week, usually about 6-7 exercises. One set, 3-4 sec negative, close to failure (but one rep left in the tank). I gained this in about 6-8 weeks. If I had gone to total failure on everything, it would have burned me out fast.

I don’t doubt if you tried a Colorado experiment without the weight lose you’d gain something. Don’t get me wrong here, I love 90 % of Jones stuff and Nautilus but I’ll only put up with so much BS and the Colorado experiment was BS! The real issue with the Colorado experiment is that most people ( seemingly knowledgeable bodybuilders as well) don’t seem to know much about regaining muscle you already had at one time. When you look at Casey after his accident and weight lose it looks impressive when you see him later after the experiment . Think muscle memory. Number one: he’s a genetic freak, he gains big muscle no matter what he does, number two : he was already as big and muscular before the accident and experiment . Number three, he was just regaining what he already had . When I look at it it’s actually not that impressive considering Casey was a one in a million guy. It’s an experiment that belonged in the circus next to the dog faced boy or bearded lady more than being in a fitness journal. Step right up and see the man who put on 60 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks !! Now come around to the back of the tent and I’ll sell you the machines that did it!! Step right up!!!

Scott

1 Like

It may be BS or it may not be BS…I wasn’t there

Viator regained a lot of muscle that he lost prior to the experiment…I don’t think anyone is denying that

My point in my post is try it…you may gain muscle but then again you might not gain muscle…the only thing you have to lose is a few weeks of time

I remember awhile ago there were three fellas from Canada that did the experiment as it was written and there were some gains made…not a lot but some were noticeable IMHO

And most people on these forums did nothing but make fun of them…and now they no longer post anything

As for me…I am still trying to lose bodyfat, therefore it is not my goal to try the experiment…also, most of the training during the experiment was negative only…I do not have training partners that would be able assist me in those exercises

Michael Petrella at STG Fitness

John Little has about 20 minutes of them on his YouTube

Yah, that story was even worse. He lost 70 lbs, nearly died. Of course, he was on a ventilator and in a coma for several weeks.

This puts a bit of perspective on it (and some spin). I first heard Mentzer say this in 1980 and the comparison with Arnold resonated with me. It would have been nice if a similar comparison with Boyer during his time at Nautilus was available - but sadly it isn’t.

1 Like

This had me recall the bodybuilding show that I went to see (in Sarasota, FL I believe) where Arnold was there to guest pose, during his filming of Stay Hungry. If I recall correctly Arnold talked to the audience before posing, and told of the filming and the weight he had to lose to make the character reasonable. He said something like this, “Please excuse me for looking like a shtick”

His legs were very thin, yet maintained good size arms.

Side note of interest: And if I’m not mistaken, it was at this show that the promoters brought in Tom Platz to compete against Ivor Butcher, Florida’s “Best Legs Man”. As far as I know Ivor Butcher never lost a “Best Legs” trophy. And he didn’t that day either. Tom Platz won the contest, but “Best Legs” went to Ivor Butcher. Personally, I thought Platz had slightly better legs, but it was close.

In 1975 Arnold was 28-29 years old. Casey in 1973 (time of Colorado Experiment) was 22-23 years old. Arguably, Casey had better genetics than Arnold for muscle mass (I don’t discuss physique/aesthetics here), and we can have the issue of Arnold becoming non-responsive (or less responsive) to PEDs from years of heavy usage. So, we have (a) a younger bodybuilder, with (b) better genetics, with (probably) (c) lower usage of steroids (at least, with lower cumulative history of PEDs usage), plus some extra from (d) different training methods (Casey’s / Jones’ methods worked better for Casey vs. Arnold), plus (as far as I remember) (e) Casey ate very little before experiment (meaning more incentive for the body to rebuilt itself with some extra). For me, all these factors explain why Casey gained more. I agree that average trainee will not be able to replicate the same results whatever the amount of effort will be exerted.