T Nation

How Much Deca Should I Use?

Hi there, old gear user here.
10 years of usage.

Now, ive allways been using around 300-400mg tren og around 500-750mg test.

Ive just had a FUE hair transplant for 4000 grafts and paid a shitload of cash for it.
This made me think about my usage of androgens and the cost/benefit.

So im trying out deca now, for the first time more or less.

Ive ran a short cycle last year of 600 deca and 600 test and made some good gains, not tren gains, but gains.

i have decided to reduce the test even further down to around 350mg ew and was considering doing around 1 gram of deca.

Im not sure if that is a high dosage, or if it is on the good side to make some gains?

Currently i work from home, so i can eat, sleep and trains just as i want, and i want to exploit this opportunity before my workload gets too big to chill around :slight_smile:

Cheers.

I just read this

As “ten years of age”

Regardless dependent on you’re age… if you’re 40+, still using tren you’re asking for trouble… I’d suggest getting an echocardiogram prior to commencing another cycle. Chances are (given you’re dosages) you’ve got structural abnormalities within you’re myocardium… you may not, and with 10 years of use the alterations are probably subclinical, but it’s good to know where you stand (and yes, dialated AAS induced cardiomyopathy can be asymptomatic until the split second you go into ventricular fibrillation and drop dead)

Another prospect to think of is the neurotoxicity associated with the blatant abuse of these compounds… it appears cognition is irreparably and significantly altered in cohorts who use heavily

1 gram of deca if you aren’t competing is just retarded… try 400-600mg again, that’s all you really need… however you’re an adult, if you’re fully aware of the extent you’re risks entail, I can’t stop you

I don’t believe the avg adult has ANY business going over 1 gram of gear weekly, it’s just stupid… the risk/reward ratio isn’t worth it… if you were @Singhbuilder I’d understand

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Thanks for the input.
Im 30 years old, i actually started around 18.
Yes i know that was dumbfuck stupid, but done is done.

Anyhow, i have done some cycles each year, but in 2016 - 2018 i was completely off gear, i had evrything checked an all came out good.
My doctor is actually tired of me constantly searching for a problem the roids might have caused.
Except my t levels are shitfucked … 400ng/dl free more or less when im off.

Anyways, i am actually gonna go for competeing.

5’9
around 220 lb currently, and i want to go for 250lb.
But i heed ur advice, i will take the middle road and stick with 800mg deca weekly then :slight_smile:

Holy shit… that’s huge, can we get a pic?

Anyway, if you’re cardiac function/structure remains preserved, the only problem to worry about is long standing neurological toxicity, nephrotoxicity etc

You’re not using c17aa compounds, that’s good! You’re young (30)… just be careful… good luck with the competition though! At that size I’m sure you’ll kill it :slight_smile:

Yea sure.
I really dont know any poses right now for real so its just my selfies u get.

First pic here im around 200lb mark.
Dont know for realt since i was on a pretty long vaccation i Split croatia, was off the gear and just lived off fish and whatever i got at the resturant.

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Here i am around 220lb.

Currently i am around 110-115lb while off.

I know its hard to judge the pic for real since its a selfie gunshot :stuck_out_tongue:

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Holy shit man, you look good. Are you on steroids??

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last picture is was off at the moment.
Was prepareing for my hair transplant so i couldent be on any kind of gear for 1 month up to and 1 month after.

Looking good man. I am paranoid about my hair and at 41 still have a decent head of hair despite 20 years of use…

I often stick with high deca and low test. Not huge gains but if patient enough they will come. Usually I do 400 deca 200 test but just upped the deca to 600. Never had libido issues etc.
I am scared of the cns effects as well as the cardio effects but now my plan is one 16 week cycle a year and cruise on trt plus hgh… I have no plans on competing just wanna look good.

thanks bud.
Well im pretty sure the 400mg tren a week did the shedding on the top for me.
And the new implanted hairs cannot fall out from roids, though i want to take it more easy from now on.

I did have a lot of hair still, im just so fucking self-conscious that it nagged me like hell.

The hell, even the mrs thought i had nice hair and dident need it… BB’ers just seem to be the new princess on the block lol

you look good man, good luck with deca… side note tho do you have to take finasteride after transplant?

yea thanks.

Well…
Its a guessing game with the fina.

Lets say i have 10.000 hairs left on top.
Will i keep them if i drop the fina, will i loose 4.000 ?
Will i lose 7.000 ?

I can only find out if i drop the fina, but then again, if i lose 10.000 i only have all the new hair i have transplanted left.

But they will stay.

Nevertheless, i stay on fina while i do cycles and drop the fina when im off :slight_smile:

Deca and fina, youre a brave brave man but results speak for themselves! Good luck going forward.

I think he’s talking about finasteride (5a reductase inhibitor), not finaplix (trenbolone acetate implants designed for cattle, can be altered/converted to injectable tren ace)

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Youre correct, just between what I read about sexual implications from both theyre both terrifying to me.

But they both produce results I would love lol

Yea, im talking about the inhibitor, not the AAS.
Anyhow, ive been on fina for over a year now, nothing there.

And regarding the deca, i dont tend to get a limp dick from anything, rather i would love my sexdrive to chill off a little so i dont chase all the girls around all the time lol.

No shit, id rather focus more on lifting and studying than sex

That’s fine… I guess… finasteride has many known long term implications… a PFS foundation even exists now to cater towards and support those effected by the ailment… that being said, I’d garner the majority of men who actually use 5a reductase inhibitors end up fine… its the 1-2 percent that don’t recover who come on here, post and complain… does that mean I think people should use them?

Hell no, blocking conversion enzymes regarding sex hormones has the potential to induce profound downstream effects… neurologically, in terms of inducing endothelial dysfunction (in the terms of aromatase)… it’s just not worth the risk for the prospect of keeping a few extra hairs… if you’re that concerned about hair loss… stop using gear or switch to minimally androgenic compounds

That being said if finasteride works for you… that’s fine… use at you’re own risk

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i totally get where you come from.
And i would say you are totally right, but this only applies to men with natural test levels.

I consider this as a reduction of my DHT to my normal levels.
Because since i am on supraphysiological levels of T, my DHT is elevated.
I am using fina to keep it around the lower normal range.

Problems with gear is, much of this is just guesswork based on experience and knowledge.

Anyhow i value your input, because i feel the same way.
But lets be honest, if i where to really care about my longevity, i should stop the aas, stop drinking somtimes, stop the fina, stop tattooing myself (lots of studies show that the ink is on your lymphes inside too), and recreational drugs would be a complete no no.
We cant always practice our own best advice :slight_smile:

Why though? You’d expect DHT to be elevated just as you’d expect E to be elevated in correlation to having T 10x the top of the ref range… there’s a certain benefit to keeping the body within it’s natural balance regarding hormonal conversion during these times

What recreational drugs… using coke on AAS is COMPLETELY idiotic (no offence if this is you)… statistically the risk of SCD during the first 60 minutes post cocaine administration is 24x that of a regular Joe, combine that with ethanol to form cocaetthylene which is 20x more cardiotoxic (roughly) comparative to coke alone… so 20x24… combine that with AAS who statistically have a 3x higher mortality rate compared to the general populace (3x risk of cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation etc over a period of only 10 years) so whist this isn’t an entirely accurate ideology to assume as other variables interact but… 20x24x3… The effects of which coke exert upon the cardiovascular system co-link with some of the effects AAS induce… making it the perfect heart attack drug while on

  • both induce a net effect regarding vasoconstriction (coke being far more intense)
  • both induce hypertension
  • both enlarge the left ventricle through similar mechanisms barring direct myocardial injury mediated via AR binding… Im talking about cardiac enlargement induced by catecholamine release/overload (AAS unregulates sympathetic nervous system, increases sensitivity of beta adrenergic receptors and thus sensitivity to epinephrine and norepinephrine)… Cocaine does this acutely, to a far more extensive degree whilst AAS is chronic, systemic… coke also releases catecholamines in MASSIVE concentrations… induces myocardial ischemia (another mechanisms for coke induced cardiac fibrosis/heart enlargement)
  • both facilitate pro arrhythmic effects (AAS through catecholamines/development of myocardial fibrosis/cardiac enlargement)… coke through all of the above + impaired calcium handling, blockade of potassium channels and more

PLEASE don’t use coke on cycle, it’s an incredibly dumb thing to do… and if you’re using coke… coke, AAS and booze is seriously asking for it… will you be fine if you do it once? Probably, but why take such a risk?

I’ve used my fair share of recreational drugs, I’ve done some STUPID things… but I’ve never used coke or MDMA (risk of pill contaminants, had I had access to pill testing and known what I had on one of the myriad of occasions offered the story might have been very different)… nor have I ever done something outright retarded like methamphetamine… I’m willing to have a VERY good time every now and then, but I won’t use coke… Stick to cannabis… in terms of overall ACUTE risk (barring the immense risk of addiction) you’d even be better off (in terms of the risk of… dropping dead) abusing opiate painkillers… used within a normal dosage range, you won’t OD (so long as whatever you have isn’t fentanyl laced)… and I’d NEVER recommend abusing painkillers, it’s moronic… but to put things into perspective, the effects of coke regarding proarrythmiac effect appears to be extensive regardless of dosage… with opiates/benzodiazepines respiratory depression is dose dependent (and it’s very hard, borderline impossible to overdose and induce fatal respiratory depression from benzodiazepines alone)… should clarify I don’t abuse painkillers… well… tried it ONCE (within a recreational context)… but that was a little while ago now… was an incredibly dumb thing to do. Have also abused benzodiazepines a few times… as in literally only a select few times… regarding trying to determine what effect they’d have regarding effect on social anxiety… I don’t have “social anxiety” anymore, as a matter of fact travelling and going out solo numerous times appears to have cured me of this… bad idea, quite a few bad decisions were made on those nights…

Not talking about addiction potential here, I’m thinking of acute lethality… just please… stay away from cocaine, even amphetamine (not the methylated counterpart) is safer… cocaine just isn’t safe, yet appears to be casually used within recreation among numerous cohorts… especially kids in Europe, which surprised me as these kids have NO idea what the overall level of risk actually is…

Second point, how much and how often do you drink? It’s one of the more harmful recreational drugs we have at our disposal…

I understand, we all make bad decisions… but within reason man… if you’re using coke on cycle you’re asking for trouble (I only keep mentioning this because I can’t hone in just how bad a coke + AAS combo is… if you want to snort/smoke coke, just don’t use AAS, the two are incredibly synergistic regarding how much harm they induce when used together).

I used to do i shitload of drugs when i was younger.
I quit them though.
Used to smoke too.
Quit it.

But you know, sometimes you just do things you regret later.

Anyways, i actually quit the drugs and cigarettes because i know how bad they are for you, especially on AAS.

Quite lucky for me, i was never the one to get addicted to anything.
I just had too much cash and was alone too much, i know its poor as fuck to say, but i was in a bad place and alone in my life.

Still am alone lol, i just focus on other productive things instead.

I dident quite get the DHT thing though.
Mind that i am not a native englishs speaker.

I mean, i elevate my T, hence my E and DHT gets elevated (others of course too).
i reduce my E with aromataze inhibitors.
Why would you not reduce your DHT with A5 recutace inhibitors ?