T Nation

How Much Can You Lift From...


#1
  1. the hang
  2. the blocks

Compared to lifting from the floor/platform. Are the numbers almost similar to each other?


#2

Snatch
1.105kg i think? Haven't done this in ages
1.75kg? I haven't done this in years

  1. 150Kg Clean
  2. f0ck knows, haven't doen this for years

122/155 (Clean, no Jerk:P)

My Clean is somewhat close as they are the most recently completed things.

Blocks will be harder then the hang unless your 2nd pull is exceptional imo. Most people will able to lift more from the floor that OLift. The people that lift more from hang/ blocks are mainly people who can't do the first pull properly as they never train it (Athletes, American Football players, throwers etc) in my experience.

But yeah you'll have a few OLifters that can do more from the blocks, but that isn't the norm imo.

Can't imagine Snatching 122 from blocks...my Snatch would be about 135-138 before I'd do this.

122 from the hang would be a big challenge.

Koing


#3

Paperclip,

When I write programs, I usually use a hypothetical 1RM for both hang and blocks as about 90% of the 1RM from the floor. And, I tend to tweak it a bit during workouts depending on whether I have suggested high, med. or low hangs or blocks: the higher the bar startin place, the lower the kgs.
In general, I use hangs for strength and blocks more for technique work.

CoachMc


#4

I personalty am quite good from the blocks and the hang.

I don't often go very heavy from the blocks or from the hang for singles, so its hard to say what my 1RMs from those positions are.

My best snatch from the floor is 120 right now (very close to 125 imo)

Blocks is 115 (although done fairly easily) and 112.5 for a double.

From hang my best is 110 for a double done right at the knee cap, but I can power 100 for sets of 4 from the hang if I dont go below the knee.


#5

I also though i would mention that I have a friend/training partner who is AMAZING from the blocks. His best snatch from the floor is 120 but he has done 125 from the blocks and can power 110 from the blocks.


#6

Quinton?

102.5s snatch. 92.5kg from hang. 95 from blocks.
120 clean. 110kg from hang. 115kg from blocks


#7

Coach, what's a med. hang?

What I'm thinking: low and high hang = clean and snatch from the hang position, respectively.


#8

Paperclip,

I consider the starting position of the bar for high hangs or block lifts to be just a bit lower than the height of the bar when the double knee bend is initiated (so, mid thigh for cleans an uper thigh for snatches). Medium hangs or block lifts start just above or at the knees. Low hangs or block lifts start below the knees.

As you can see, there is a little bit of wiggle room in these starting positions. The important thing is to make sure when you start the lift that the bar moves inward and upward first before being catapulted by hip and knee extension, after the double knee bend. And, no matter the height of these hangs/blocks, except when the bar is set right at the point of 2nd pull initiation, I have my lifters set up with their shoulders directly over the bar so that the arms are hanging vertically and the balance already on their rearfeet. This is a bit of a false positioning of the arms/shoulders but it allows the lifter to more easily practice the in and up movement that is essential to pulling with a correct "S".

Oh, if the bar is set at the start of the 2nd pull acceleration, upper thigh (for cleans) or pubic bone (for snatches), the shoulders should be out in front of the bar slightly. The bar is now at the point of the S where it no longer is moving towards the lifter but will be quickly projected slightly up and away.

CoachMc


#9

Tork94,

You might be one of those lifters that is faster and more agile than he is strong. I've had a few.
You might want to check your bar trajectory from the floor and see if the bar moves immediately towards you(good) or is either straight or moving away(bad). If you sweep it inward as you move from the floor, you may find your full lift gets better. Some guys that are better above the knee are so because of a bad first pull in their full lift.

CoachMc


#10

Coach McCauley, just to make sure that I get you, is this a "high hang"?

BTW, I think that video is what inspired me to take up olympic weightlifting!

coachmccauley wrote:
The important thing is to make sure when you start the lift that the bar moves inward and upward first before being catapulted by hip and knee extension, after the double knee bend.

  • Is that about the 2nd pull?

coachmccauley wrote:
Oh, if the bar is set at the start of the 2nd pull acceleration, upper thigh (for cleans) or pubic bone (for snatches), the shoulders should be out in front of the bar slightly. The bar is now at the point of the S where it no longer is moving towards the lifter but will be quickly projected slightly up and away.

  • I thought that's where the 2nd pull ends (2nd pull: from above the knee to the power position/the moment you're ready to extend forcefully). But that may be just semantics....

#11

yes your are correct that I am faster/quicker then I am strong. Been working a lot on my strength and working on getting my first pull from the floor to get me to the same position as I am from the hang. I think its working as my power snatches from the floor have really shot up and im a lot more consistent from the floor in the squat lifts as well.

Thanks for your input, I value it greatly


#12

Paperclip,

Yes, that's a high hang.

Now, the 2nd pull is the portion of the pull in which the acceleration really starts and ends near the top of the S where transition, or 3rd pull(under) begins. The 1st pull is the portion of the pull from below the major acceleration point and includes the double knee bend or scoop.

Because I view the lifter's extension as more of a catapulting motion, I call the point at which the 2nd pull begins "The Launch Point". To me, the 1st pull, although some momentum on the bar is gained, is much more about correctly positioning the bar.

CoachMc


#13

Thanks for clarifying, coach!

BTW about this bit:

coachmccauley wrote:

To me, the 1st pull, although some momentum on the bar is gained, is much more about
correctly positioning the bar.

is actually the reason I made this thread.

I'm wondering if the 1st pull is more about positioning the bar AND IF starting from the platform, from the hang, and from the blocks numbers are almost similar, then I wonder if the 1st part of the lift, which is from the floor to the "launch point" (as you said), is that important. By that I mean if lifters need to adopt "a standard method" for the "1st part of the lift", for example Rippetoe advocates to use the deadlift position for the starting position which from what I know is not usually taught. But if the "1st part of the lift" influences the "launch point" or the 2nd pull then it should be important.

Sorry coach I don't want to burden you with questions again I just want to my express my thoughts :slightly_smiling:


#14

Paperclip,

The 1st pull is vitally important, as is proper starting position, to the outcome of the whole lift. I don't know what Rip is defining as the Deadlift position but this is what I do. I coach all lifters to move the bar inward and upward during the 1st pull.

I teach that the start position has to be one in which the 1)bar is vertically over the base of the big toe, 2)the lifters arms should be vertical and descend by the sides of the knee joints,3)for almost all, the balance at the starting position should be on the forefeet.
I tell lifters to think about making your back and arms look like a crane. Those 3 conditions usually lead to a lower rather than a higher hip position for most lifter's at the Set.

After initiation, the 1)lifter's balance should go to the rearfeet, 2)the arms should angle in towards the lifter, sweeping the bar inward by using a tightening of the lats. This simultaneous shift in balance on the feet as the knees are pushed back and active tightening of the lats produces the inward sweep at the start of the "S" pull. (This inward movement of the bar is absolutely critical to the best lifting. If the arms continue to hang straight down during the 1st pull and the balance doesn't go to the rear, the bar will inevitably be forward at the top of the pull.)

As the bar moves from the floor, the lifter keeps his torso in the angular position of the Set. But, as the bar proceeds upward and inward, a slight tilting forward of the torso occurs just before the initiation of the double knee bend. This is then rectified by the scoop for position and a slight extension of the hips as this occurs, putting the lifter in the correct position at the Launch Point, at which time the hips accelerate tremendously and along with knee extension, drive the bar up and slightly outward in the 2nd pull.

CoachMc


#15

Paperclip,

Just a quick add-on. The lift should be done in a slower to faster tempo. Even though we know there is a loss of force during the double knee bend, the athlete should feel he/she is always gaining speed until the bar is shouldered or overhead.

CoachMc


#16

Thank you coach for staying with me, your athletes must be really lucky!

Just want to clarify, the deadlift starting position as suggested by Rippetoe is starting with the butt higher like in conventional deadlift. Also, at the start the bar rests in the middle of the feet but I'm not sure about this one.


#17

Paperclip,

Every successful olympic lifting coach I know has his/her lifters start the bar over the base of the big toe; no closer. Hip height may vary because of bodytype but lower rather than higher is the preferred position at the Set. I would have to disagree with Rip on this one, if your description is correct.

I think it's important to remember that the start position for a lift that only requires moving the bar high enough for the lifter to stand with it at arms length and a lift that has to position the bar to be propelled to the shoulders or overhead may require very different mechanics from start to finish.

CoachMc (thank you for the kind words)


#18

You can PS 100 for sets from the hang?! Thats a f0ck load!

I doubt I could dom or then 90 from the hang PS...what do you do PS from the floor?

I've done 95 for 3 and 100 for 2/3 with the 3rd being a full Snatch for PS from the floor.

Koing


#19

i can power about the same from the floor as i can from the hang, its pretty close. My best from the hang is 2 sets of 4 PS with 100. My best from the floor with 100 is 4 sets of 3 (although the last rep on the last 2 sets were probably just below parallel)

my best double PS from the floor is 102.5 right now although i have never tried more with out purposely squatting it.


#20

You've never max your PS 1RM?

You must be very efficient to do 4 at 100 but only 2 at 102.5. Thats some serios power stamina. My 3rd rep at 100 was no where near at the level of the first 2. Hell looking back at the video just now the 2nd rep was degrading already lol

I've done 105 from the floor, missed 110 a bunch of times :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing