Im not a smart man and I dont read allot of research papers. But from just general experience and observation. Your newer and weaker lifters can train more often than a stronger more advanced lifters.
Im left scratching my head anymore with this whole trend of how training more frequency is far superior for Natural guys due to increase of MPS more frequently… Which is all well and good. But nobody whom are heavily pushing this seems to question recovery of the body as a whole, besides just skeletal muscle.
You can’t argue against a body part split for bodybuilding.
But what about “special” cases?
Like if your calves were really, really weak. Or if you broke your arm, and 2 months later you had 1 super small shoulder?
You can’t argue against a body part split for body building. If everybody good uses a similar plan, it must be pretty close to the best plan. But do you body builder guys have any experience doing short term, extra frequent, or “special weak point” training routines? Or is that kind of thing only in the magazines?
I believe this to be true as well. It seems to be a function of recovery ability–a lifter can get hyooger and hyooger, but his ability to recover does not get ‘hyooge’ along with his muscles. That is, when forced through a challenging workout, big muscles place a far greater burden on the body’s ability to recover than do small muscles. A complete noob could probably work his entire body almost every day without any ill effects.
Mike Mentzer made this point in one of his books. He recounted training with a relative beginner one day. They were both doing concentration curls–the noob with a 25# DB, Mentzer with an 80. At the end of the set (for the first arm), the noob pointed out that Mentzer was breathing heavily and sweating profusely, whereas he (the noob) was barely panting. This observation drove home to Mentzer the vastly greater demands he was placing on his body compared to those the noob was placing on his, despite the fact that they were nominally doing the same workout.
The huge amounts of juice Phil Heath takes means that training matters less and less. His MPS is elevated through the whole week, no need to stimulate growth more often, just destroy a muscle group once in a while. This works for natties but it’s not the most efficient way.
I’m trying ultra high frequency training right now (training a muscle group every day). I will prove that this is the best way to train for natties.
Corollary to this. Noobs can hit a 1RM on Monday then rock up on Tuesday and hit it again and probably beat it. On the other hand, it would take Malanichev a while to get into a state to hit a 1RM and even though he’s a complete freak, next to zero chance of him hitting it again without another build up - let alone the next day.
You have to take into account volume as well. The problem with recovery comes when trainees try to hit body parts multiple times a week with the same daily volume as 1x a week guys.
If you are doing 12-16 sets of chest on 1 day I believe you will get better results if you split the volume up into 2-3 sessions. You are fresh, able to keep better form/MMC, use more weight and you cut out a lot of the excess volume/exercises that are just adding unnecessary work and fatigue that will impact recovery and coming training sessions.
At the end of the day the routine you prefer and can stick to long term will give you the best results.
** A lot of the up in coming naturals competing in say the IPE are using higher frequency sometimes 2x daily sessions. Many are way younger than the top guys used to be.
Which I agree with … I just find the whole split vs whole body debate tiresome. With all training approaches each have their pros and cons. As of late I see guys whom want to spew the whole superiority thing on full body just wanting to keep focusing on MPS while not totally looking at things as a whole.
Got a picture so that when you’re superior training produces better results than what people like Brian Whitacre or our very own @The_Mighty_Stu or a tank of a man like Anthony Monetti so that they too can know what’s best for drug free training?
I’m pretty sure Phil’s years in the gym means that his training matters less. I always say that the whole constantly searching for a great program most people do shows that they just don’t get it.
One of Arash’s frequent quotes is that it’s all about intensity, consistency, and what YOU bring to it.
Shawn Ray used to laugh at young kids’ reactions when they asked him what exercises he did for arms and he would tell them “the same ones you do.”
Knowing HOW to actually USE a movement is something you learn from experience. I’ve known plenty of guys who take “huge amounts” of juice and look like complete garbage and wouldn’t place in a novice tested contest.
Lmao. Namer calling and bro science professor lol.
I’ve already shared EVIDENCE, not bro science. You can’t fight real science with bro science. And why are you name calling? Are you mad bro?
About the juice, even kids from kindergarten know that these guys are juiced to the eye balls and it looks grotesque.
Btw that noob is soon going to be bigger and stronger than you guys lmao.
Pretty sure you’re being rhetorical, but I know you’d get a kick out of the fact that he’s an 18-year old who weighs 150, benches 170, and squats 100.
We do not know that, because there are too many variables involved (as was said) and because there’s tons of real world evidence demonstrating that directly training a muscle once a week can be optimal for hypertrophy.
You didn’t prove anything, and your evidence is one study that’s not really applicable to bodybuikders (check Dt79’s awesome reply again).
I think most people in this thread Are open to alternative theories, but schoenfelds paper isn’t new, and while it’s still being touted as the holy grail by internet armchair “experts” (with sub par physiques mind you) it not only goes against what every successful bodybuilder had done / does, but schoenfeld himself acknowledges the severe limitations and applications of the study.