Now this is someone we could listen to… Actual experience.
Funny how going by what some people said, you are not long dead, because you know… clen is supposed to be poison 
Isn’t this the same guy you said in another thread might be fake 
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Yep same guy lol
Its pretty hilarious to dismissing him as a troll one minute, then sucking his bum the next.
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Well now his views align so it works lol
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Start here and try to understand these concepts in a general way before you explore any specific compound:
Clen is a perfect example of a drug you don’t mess with. The ED50 way too close to the TD50 unless you like riverboat gambling or have legimate medical need (and there’s excellent alternatives to Clen for a medical need).
I don’t remember Dan Duchaine ever getting into these particulars when discussing Clen or DNP which is a shame and leaves a bad legacy unfortunately. Same for unnecessary T3 use.
There are no experts for how you as an individual will respond with either acute or chronic use of these compounds. Even among an individual, things can and do change as we age.
Good case studies. All this stuff sounds like scare tactics until you experience it:
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This is getting ridiculous…
I respect the science, but I live in real world not in paper. I’m not saying that I like being ignorant, but I won’t settle just because medical data say it’s bad.
If we gonna think it this way, then the whole world is dark f***** up place and people who actually rule everything don’t want you/me or anyone else to be healthy and strong. Of course this is my opinion but I believe that big pharma wants people sick for a reason - $$$ and weak people that are easily manipulated.
I think aas is discontinued and banned (most of it) cuz it works too damn good and the system doesn’t want it to work.
Why junk food is advertised and sold on every corner, why cigarettes are being sold and not banned? Why alcohol is still around if it causes not only health problems but makes people do stupid life changing decisions and look stupid to sober people? Cuz they don’t make you better, they make you fat, weak and dependant easily manipulated object that system can control how it wants to.
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Thanks for chiming in to all of you.
I could have explained it clear and posted data to support it, but with this guy I think there wasn’t much to gain and I’m pressed on time.
Real world experience is very good, clinical data is very important too. Clen use is just outdated.
Let’s assume I am still competing and not 72 years old, but in my early 30’s. Will the clenbuterol substitutes give the same “peak conditioned” look as “outdated clenbuterol”? Please consider that I wasn’t using clenbuterol for asthma or COPD.
Do know that I used butazolidin for short periods (3 weeks) when my patella tendon pain made leg training difficult. I could feel the relief in as little as 3 days, but knowing it was toxic, I used it for a period not to exceed 3 weeks and no more than once a year. Trying to balance risk/reward.
Timely thread:
Check out the actual vs labeled clen dose in the case report paper.
I said him being a legendary bodybuilder from magazines might be fake, not the fact that he used clen a lot, is older and still alive 
Its idiotic to rip out 1 idea from the context and apply it to a different conversation. And you know it.
As far as I’m concerned, clenbuterol increases adrenergic innervation of muscle tissue, giving a toned look. It increases lipid oxidation and it increases energy expenditure as well as heart rate and “CNS activation”. Since salbutamol has the exact same mechanism of action it will do all of this but safer because of kinetics.
If we are talking about Olympia or other very high class BB competitions, then the risk is not the main point anymore and if clen works for you, you wouldn’t substitute it. But this is for sure not the scenario we are talking here. In my opinion even in those circumstances salbutamol would be better, but since BBers at this level are highly in tune with their bodies and know what works for them to get the best possible physique outcome without assessing risk, I wouldn’t try to convince someone of my opinion. That’s why I said for recreational users like the people on here.
Now I am being talked about with a third person pronoun.
Let me clarify, if you believe what I type on my keyboard. I am by no means a legendary bodybuilder. Not even close.
I have been in three national bodybuilding magazines, twice with my ex-wife. With my ex-wife on the cover of Strength and Health and the fold-out of the first Flex Magazine. We competed in Couples. I was in small picture in the latter pages of Muscle Training Illustrated in the results of the 1980 Jr Mr America.
I am limited by my genetics to only progress just so far. But I gave it my all.
He doesnt fcking know. He has never taken it. He actually writes that he benches 235. That is a weight i benched while being natural in my 17, while not knowing shit about shit. Im sure as hell he is no steroid expert, he probably looks like Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.
Dont you think its funny how all the biggest experts here have absolutely NOTHING to show for it?
I have no problem with that.
On the other thread i just said that on the internet anyone can say they can be anything so i just keep my skepticism until i see some proof IF i care and need it but i dont, because we dont have any disagreements or arguments for me to ask for any proof of anything.
At this time, if what you say is true, is very good, because then it shows that you have done enough clen to be dead according to our “scientists” here
And here you are, many, many years later after perma blasting tren and test at high doses and your lifts are weak as fucking piss.
Who cares what his lifts are. Solid information is solid information regardless of how strong someone is.
And let me save you some time from searching my post history, I’m weak too. I don’t even bench so you really shouldn’t listen to anything i say.
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I wasnt doing any serious weight lifting since 12 months ago. I was a fighter and only did bodyweight and pump up work.
I dont have any lifts to show for my tren because the goal was totally different but i do have pictures :
For what i wanted to get i did get. Do you have something to show for your knowledge? You already said - no lifts. Ok, im lifting heavy for a year maybe. Less on a good program even. Show me the pics then.
As far as my crappy lifts go, i did go bench from 280 to 360 in less than a year with 2 broken elbows and a shitty shoulder with 1/3 of the doses i used to take. I am only learning to lift because strenght and longevity is my goal since i hit 30.
You can be sure as hell that in 1 more year i will be doing solid numbers also, not only be in better shape at 6’2 than you will be able to show.
Still doesnt change the fact that 235 is a 5x10 weight not a max for a steroid expert on t-nation.
And still doesnt change the fact that the biggest experts have no lifts to show, and no body to show for their knowledge, does it?
I mean, yes, i might not know all, and i might not be the best shape in the world and my lifts suck, but why do i get the feeling that those so called experts cant beat me in anything anyways no matter how much you wanted to put me down? I called out a shi lift cuz i can do better. You called out me… ok, fine - i did pics. Can you show you can do better? 
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Nevermind, found your transformation thread.
With the way you look, i would rather max 235 bench like @lordgains but still look like me.
You see, i would never shit on you if you wouldnt act like you are smart and say that my lifts are weak as piss while you look…well, you know… you dont really look like someone who should discuss steroids because apparently you havent taken any, so… myea.
On my second year of chasing strenght i will doing good numbers. Your transformation tho, is not really getting much better in a year. In reality, i would help you and respect you for you doing stuff because i believe we are all here to get better, but the way you act like you are some sort of higher rank with all those “scientists” who probably look like you also… man, get the fck out… You are on this forum for years, reading all the science and you cant get lean in a friggin year.
How the fuck am i the lower rank citizen here, who doesnt know shit and shouldnt be speaking against the “gods” of this forum?
He is 72 iirc. We will all be lucky to be alive and in the gym at that age.
I think a lot of this disagreement is just stemming from individual risk tolerance. Many here are pretty tame for steroid forums. You don’t seem to be. That is fine, but just add that context. Many here just want to look better, or lift big with lower risk. Personally, I don’t want to be bigger than 220 @ 5’10" and pretty lean. I want to lift some big weights though. I know guys that are more like you. They have good advice if taken in context. If chasing down that 600 lb bench, most are going to need a lot of assistance, but most here would be damn happy to put up 405.
i do hear you, but im talking about those “scientists” who act like gods here, who bench 235 and look fat for years even tho “know their stuff” on steroid forums for years… that one dude with transformation thread - i could get shredded from his fatness in 4 weeks… 8 weeks if taking cheat days every third day. But no, his knowledge cant get him in shape for more than a year, so why does he come here and act like he is above me?