my GF is on 60-70mcgs a day and she sleeps for like 12 hours if someone is not waking her up even if she takes Clen mid-day… have you taken Clen and experienced all what you say? 
Your girlfriend seems to be lucky. Plenty of people with insomnia on clen, the opposite is the outlier.
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You didnt answer my question - how many mcgs of clen did you take, to have all these problems and did you use 2wk on/2wk off protocol?
I never took Clen, see my post above, there is no reason why one should use it (besides some medical conditions).
Give me one reason why you push clen? Did you try albuterol?
You are reckless with your body and I don’t care. Try not to be reckless with somebody else’s. Also, your n=1 knowledge is good, but there is a different type of knowledge out there which is sometimes good to listen to. Just a heads up.
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Is someone here on tren lol? Cuz I don’t see why you try to prove something to each other…
Point is clen is a stimulant and how someone responds to stimulants is the most important factor here.
Anything can be toxic/bad/unhealthy at too high of a dose. Take coffee for example, if you OD it can be very bad to the point of spending time in hospital or even death. Yet it’s legal and experts say it’s good and it is if you take it in moderation.
For example I can handle clen and I can handle other stimulants at heavy doses, I used to use clen and caffeine regularly ~3-4 years ago at 21-22. I’m talking about 120-140mcg/day and 600-1200mg caffeine/day (usually workout days above 1k, even more sometimes) I didn’t give a f* at that time.
Yet some of my friends felt like dying at 80mcg/day and had to quit.
One more important note I’ll repeat if you use clen make sure to supplement taurine I’m not bs’ing anyone you will experience cramps like never before. I also think that taurine in the heart is also being depleted by clen.
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Dude, i dont push clen - as i have mentioned, i took it once 10 years ago, and now my gf is on it for the first time. I also said that i dont think it does more than extra 30min on elyptical. I dont push it. I give my experience and i speak my opinion.
What i want to actually push is that you come into clen thread, speak about it but you have never taken it. It is absurd as shit. If you havent taken clen, dont discuss it. You said what you read somewhere and be done with it. Dont attack me on my every coment if you have never even held the thing in your hand.
You are like those people who comment MMA fights with their online fighting knowledge of video lessons about fighting.
We got your point - you read on the internet that it is shit. Now let others speak who actually have some experience and want to try it.
As far as albuterol goes, i never heard of it before you mentioned it and i will try it in about a month. But as you see - i dont speak if i have no experience. When i will, i will compare the two. For now i share what i have. You dont have anything to share so why do you thrash this tread?
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Now what @lukiss96 said i like and i respect - experience, good and bad, and some advice. Not some old women marketplace blabber about who knows someone who knew someone whos father took clen and died the next day 
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I can’t help you, I don’t think you have the mental ability to comprehend my posts. Do you man. Go on with your permablast, have fun.
I got my salbutamol at home and I’m gonna do it this way.
Also, don’t take clen.
By this reasoning, clinical researchers should not discuss the drugs they are in charge of testing on others during trials. A lot of us (@lordgains, @iron_yuppie, @unreal24278, just to name a few) read extensively on these topics - their theoretical and scientific knowledge is very valuable, as is your real-world experience.
This isn’t the Dark Ages - please don’t discredit scientific knowledge.
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I’ve never done meth, but I think I would discourage my nan to take it and maybe offer the alternative of a nice glass of sherry if she wants to get off her nut.
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You and @kd13 otally miss the whole idea of this topic.
A dude probably has clen. He has decided to try it. Millions of people have taken it for decades, it is one of staple drugs in sports also.
He wanted to talk about clen.
Some guy said what he read, i said what i experienced, and then they kind of kept thrashing this tread with their “knowledge” even tho original author didnt ask for refferences on some “science” but is interested in extreme dieting and clen.
I dont agree with people who are attacking others with their internet knowledge even tho probably havent done shit with that knowledge for themselves.
I dont disagree with science, but when practical application is the topic, people who only read about stuff on the internet are not as credible.
Also, i want to remind everyone that people who read about science on the internet are not the same as real scientists.
I actually happen to have a degree in biology - but i have never done shit with it, nor i have interest in it, nor i remember much of it nowdays, so i dont claim to be a scientist.
Much of people who read studies on the internet havent even studied shit themselves and they can interpret much of studies wrongly, or not see the problem with many studies about this topic.
So unless those people have impressive degrees and publications and have done shit in a field of science, their “opinion” is very low value, as it is not even their study. So there is NO experience using the stuff, and NO connection with publications they read online. And then there might even be a problem that some of these people dont even have enough education and experience in the field to even interpret the study correctly.
Im not shitting on anyone you mentioned - its just that in this certain topic, where we want to talk about clen, people with no experience try to thrash the tread and attack every comment that disagrees with what they have read.
I just think that it was enough for them to say that firstly - they havent used it, then say that they read that it is a death pill, and then mention that they are not real scientists, so take their word for what it is and just leave this topic and let us talk clen and share results, jesus christ.
it is an idiotic comparison because meth is not used by millions of people for decades with good results and low sides…
but let us switch some of the variables in what you said - change meth to clen and leave the wine where it was…
so you wouldnt let anyone take clen, but you would allow alcohol : " Alcohol consumption contributes to 3 million deaths each year globally as well as to the disabilities and poor health of millions of people. Overall, harmful use of alcohol is responsible for 5.1% of the global burden of disease.".
Do you think clen kills just as many? But you are ok with one of the deadliest and toxic things in the world for your nan?
i just googled -
meth and other shit cause 75k deaths in US a year, while alcohol causes 95k deaths in US a year… there is your science when taken literally - meth could be better for your nan
Yes, and that’s what everyone has been doing. A good alternative to clen was also mentioned.
Unnecessary hyperbole
More unnecessary hyperbole
Science is heavily based in practical application - I do that daily at work
You’re assuming that none of us are “real scientists”
Sigh… Very untrue for those of us who actively study science
I didn’t see any comments that were “thrashing” others’ comments. I saw disagreements, which is a healthy part of a good discussion, as long as people are open-minded and not dogmatic. Most of us here value both scientific knowledge AND real-world experience. It’s best to have a healthy dose of both in this realm.
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I will take a guess - you havent touched clen nor studied it, nor do you do that at work. The fact that you do some work about other topics do not make you an expert in this topic, right? So basically what i said - no experience and havent even been close to scientists who studied this.
Fuck I bet you are fun at party’s.
I am way past my competition days ('70’s, '80’s, and '90’s), but I really liked clenbuterol the final 3 weeks prior to a show. I don’t recall the dosage I took, but it was only one pill a day. I used it for the final three weeks. We were told it burned brown fat. It seemed like it made the back of my neck warmer. I felt it improved my sharpness. I used clenbuterol for about 10 different shows, maybe more.
Some one in this thread said salbutamol was a safer substitute. My question is would I get the desired results. Are competitors using clenbuterol substitutes, or are they “chancing it” with what they know works, clenbuterol?
It seems as though every advantage in competitive bodybuilding carried with it a risk/benefit.
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No, because competitors have chosen to take significantly higher risks than the average gym rat.
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We have actual clinical data on how to use albuterol for the purpose of lipolysis, but can only compare it to anecdotes about clen. When in doubt people go with the crowd rather than the research paper. It’s human nature.
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Goddamn, you are either trolling or missing my point entirely. Either way, I’ve said just about I all I have to say. We need a mix of scientific data and actual experience. Your experience is just as valuable as the contributions from those who are well-read on the subject but have never actually used it.
Yes, risk versus reward always needs to be assessed. No one here has stated that clen is ineffective. It does a very good job at what it’s meant to do. But its safety - or lack thereof - must be considered as well as its efficacy.