T Nation

How Long to Reach a 315 Bench?

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight. this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

Good answer. I attribute a lot of my early lack of size to chasing #s, and unknowningly becoming ‘better’ at handling heavy weights, not understanding TUT, and just having a boneheaded diet.

S

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.

My first year of training (from age 15-16) I went from 205-231 bodyweight and my bench went from 210-305. I consider my genetics alright but certainly not freaky. After that I got cancer which did set my poundages back some but that first year was 95lbs on my bench without anything but sleep, a fuck ton of milk a good environment and real effort.

I will say getting from 315-405 was the work of 3 years of hard and intelligent training, getting fat up to 262lbs bodyweight at the time I did 405 the first time and changing to close grip to cope with a pec issue. The pounds definitely come slower as weight gets added to the bar especially if your bodyweight does not increase but the first year of training is an amazing year for gaining.

Obviously a kid who has not yet hit puberty isn’t going to have a legitimate shot at this but a kid who has been through puberty, trains intelligently and hard, eats big, recovers well is willing to gain 20-30lbs and shows consistency and desire can add 80 lbs to his bench in his first year I have seen it happen more than a few times.

I have presently benched 410 with a pause and 420 touch and go at 240-250 I train with a few guys who bench 500 raw, they are very few and far between even in exceptionally gifted powerlifters. We have a 3 sport athlete at Hercules right now who weighs around 185 stands just under 6’ and just benched a shaky and grinder 300, he’s been training with us for 7 months.

He’s got impressive genetics but certainly not freaky ones. He’s also just turned 15. Can everyone hit 315 in a year? Certainly not, but it’s not as rare a feat as it’s been made to sound and it’s certainly not impossible.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

Hi maurauder, for an individual who still belongs to the beginner category but has decent mind muscle connection and lifiting experience about a year, How would you advise him on progression for hypertrophy gains?

Is the primary focus still on attempting to lift more weight every session but with the tension still on the targeted muscle?

I find that when i progress to a slightly heavier weight, lets say 2.5 kg more, my form starts to break down a little and there is less tension on the muscle so as to speak. Is this to be expected and “practice” with the heavier weight will soon enable the body to adapt to it again?
Tks!

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight. this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

Good answer. I attribute a lot of my early lack of size to chasing #s, and unknowningly becoming ‘better’ at handling heavy weights, not understanding TUT, and just having a boneheaded diet.

S[/quote] When you say “boneheaded diet”, are you talking basic beginner mistakes or things a lot of guys might overlook? If the latter, what dietary mistakes held you back the most?

For those that benched 315 in 2 years or so, I would bet that these folks either:

  1. Were big/atheletic/not completely untrained from playing sports

  2. Placed more emphasis on bench press than other lifts.

If neither of these were the case, than wow. I must really stink at bench press :frowning:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger.

This has been an informative thread. My squat went from 135 to 315 in about 20 months and I’ve barely noticed any change in my legs/glutes. I noticed my abs are more developed though!

Starting to really see that if I want growth I’m going to have to do a lot more volume at lower weights.

[quote]BEAR BORN wrote:
My first year of training (from age 15-16) I went from 205-231 bodyweight and my bench went from 210-305. I consider my genetics alright but certainly not freaky. After that I got cancer which did set my poundages back some but that first year was 95lbs on my bench without anything but sleep, a fuck ton of milk a good environment and real effort.

I will say getting from 315-405 was the work of 3 years of hard and intelligent training, getting fat up to 262lbs bodyweight at the time I did 405 the first time and changing to close grip to cope with a pec issue. The pounds definitely come slower as weight gets added to the bar especially if your bodyweight does not increase but the first year of training is an amazing year for gaining.

Obviously a kid who has not yet hit puberty isn’t going to have a legitimate shot at this but a kid who has been through puberty, trains intelligently and hard, eats big, recovers well is willing to gain 20-30lbs and shows consistency and desire can add 80 lbs to his bench in his first year I have seen it happen more than a few times.

I have presently benched 410 with a pause and 420 touch and go at 240-250 I train with a few guys who bench 500 raw, they are very few and far between even in exceptionally gifted powerlifters. We have a 3 sport athlete at Hercules right now who weighs around 185 stands just under 6’ and just benched a shaky and grinder 300, he’s been training with us for 7 months.

He’s got impressive genetics but certainly not freaky ones. He’s also just turned 15. Can everyone hit 315 in a year? Certainly not, but it’s not as rare a feat as it’s been made to sound and it’s certainly not impossible.[/quote]

Training through cancer = badass.

I’ve seen a lot of cancer survivors who have lifted weights all the way through. I don’t know anything about cancer but do you think there is a link there?

Hope your all recovered bro.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger.

MM, I don’t think RV is saying that at all. I think we’d all agree that an elite bodybuilder will bench more when his chest is 54" versus when it was 48". Power is derived from the CNS firing and coordination of muscle groups. For a given level of CNS adaptation, bigger muscles bench more. But no one would say that bigger muscles trump CNS adaptation. Otherwise you’d be right about elite BBers benching more than the top 148’s and 165’s in PL’ing.

The bigger question still remains: Do you need CNS adaptations like a PLer to make hypertrophy gains over the long run? If so, then for a beginner, a new lifter should do a program like DeFranco’s WS for skinny bastards first, until they plateau. Then start to bench with accomodating resistance (bands and chains) until reaching 125-150% of BW. Then subsequently a high-rep or high frequency protocol would result in the desired hypertrophic awesomeness.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

I guess you have never seen Branch Warren or ronnie coleman or even a guy whos not really known as being super strong, jay cutler. I saw a video of jay cutler doing incline barbell presses with 405lbs for reps. thats not strong? remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

This has been covered here by many of the “experts” that work at this site. I have read so many articles that have said, you have to get stronger to get bigger. Lets say, you change up the tempo, and do everything slower. that might lead to some new growth, but for it to continue, you have to get stronger. thats what im saying.

If your curling the same exact weight a year from now, or doing the same weight in tricep exercises a year from now, your arms will not be any larger. FACT.

My muscles are much larger now than they were when I was at my ‘strongest’ (and I weighed considerably less then as well). In fact, I actually doubt if I could bench now what I could 5 years ago. Not because I’ve lost any muscle size, but because my body doesn’t have such strength demands regularly placed on it - which I stopped doing as my M.O. when I realized that I wasn’t getting any closer to my actual goal, which was hypertrophy.

Similarly, you will hear about various IFBB Pros being surprisingly weak when seen in public gyms. No I’m not talking about when they’re a few weeks out from a contest, but even in the offseason. The reason is that there are approaches to stimulate muscle growth that do not focus solely on improving strength, and in undertaking such approaches, there may not only be more growth benefit to the bodybuilder, but less risk in terms of injury potential.

S

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

I guess you have never seen Branch Warren or ronnie coleman or even a guy whos not really known as being super strong, jay cutler. I saw a video of jay cutler doing incline barbell presses with 405lbs for reps. thats not strong? remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

This has been covered here by many of the “experts” that work at this site. I have read so many articles that have said, you have to get stronger to get bigger. Lets say, you change up the tempo, and do everything slower. that might lead to some new growth, but for it to continue, you have to get stronger. thats what im saying.

If your curling the same exact weight a year from now, or doing the same weight in tricep exercises a year from now, your arms will not be any larger. FACT.[/quote]

i concede…you win… your eeee trophy will be mailed to you shortly.

[quote]redondo wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

Hi maurauder, for an individual who still belongs to the beginner category but has decent mind muscle connection and lifiting experience about a year, How would you advise him on progression for hypertrophy gains?

Is the primary focus still on attempting to lift more weight every session but with the tension still on the targeted muscle?

I find that when i progress to a slightly heavier weight, lets say 2.5 kg more, my form starts to break down a little and there is less tension on the muscle so as to speak. Is this to be expected and “practice” with the heavier weight will soon enable the body to adapt to it again?
Tks!
[/quote]

you had better ask the vampire these questions. He’s the expert.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have :slight_smile:

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

  1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

  2. You are fat.

  3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

  4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

  5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

  6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

I guess you have never seen Branch Warren or ronnie coleman or even a guy whos not really known as being super strong, jay cutler. I saw a video of jay cutler doing incline barbell presses with 405lbs for reps. thats not strong? remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

This has been covered here by many of the “experts” that work at this site. I have read so many articles that have said, you have to get stronger to get bigger. Lets say, you change up the tempo, and do everything slower. that might lead to some new growth, but for it to continue, you have to get stronger. thats what im saying.

If your curling the same exact weight a year from now, or doing the same weight in tricep exercises a year from now, your arms will not be any larger. FACT.[/quote]

This is completely disconnected from your original point.

First you spoke about the need for indefinite strength gains to allow continued growth.

Now you say that “Bodybuilder A lifts X weight, you cant say that X weight isnt strong”.

Not an ounce of coherence.

Take a break from posting and google ‘logical fallacy’

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
I just love the internet guys here saying, "oh, i benched 315 in a year or 2 years. Lets get with reality. When I started lifting, I was probably 16, probably could bench, if i remember correctly, no more than 125lbs. it took me a good 5 years to bench that. maybe longer.

Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Rogue, It really depends on where you start. I was heavier to begin with and did 215 or so the first time I maxed out for my weightlifting class. I had 225 within two weeks. I believe I got to 315 in about a year. The one difference is that I trained with singles right from the get go. If i only did high rep work, I doubt I would have gotten there that fast.