T Nation

How Long to Drop Estradiol 60 Points

I have been trying to dial in my HCG dosage, and a lot of guys have been saying that they are ignoring AI’s, an letting E2 just ride.I tried doing that, and my E2 worked it’s way up to 82, so I was wondering if anyone knew how long it would take, to drop about 50 points. I’ve discontinued the HCG for the time being, and I’m just taking my testosterone cream 30ML 200MG / ML 20%. x 2 daily. I appreciate you help.

Why do you want it lower and why a specific amount of 50 points? Dropping the HCG will almost certainly reduce the E2 and you shouldn’t need to do more than that besides give your system time to balance itself.

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I also have 70-80 e2 with the hcg and I see no reason to try to drop it

Hello Vonko,

Well that is very interesting, and good for you! Unfortunately, when I hit those numbers I become symptomatic. I get some BPH which I normally don’t have. I get turned on ok, but I can’t climax, and I get ED. The worst is the not being able to climax or getting there, but is on the very of being hurtful.

Your thoughts

Thanks

Thom

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How long have you been on your protocol?

Hello Mfezdro,

Because I get symptomatic at those levels. As for the “50” points it’s just an example.( 80-350= 30) an ok level for me. I was just trying to get an idea of how long it takes to come down. I’m guessing someone out there has a similar problem.

I’m interested in the symptoms you get? HCG is certainly contributing, I think drop that first then see how you feel after 6 weeks or so.

Hello Jimbortrt,

Interesting question. I have been on TRT for about 6 years, and have been placed on various protocols. Presently, I was encouraged by my doctor to go to a testosterone cream vs. injections, like I was for the past 5.5 years, I couldn’t get off my AL without becoming symptomatic. The HCG has been more of a trial and error “protocol”, mostly error.

Ok, now we’re on the same page. That’s what I’ve been doing, but I was wondering how long it would take for my E2 level to get to a level (50 points lower) so I could try a different protocol. Or at the very least, a date to go in for a E2 sensitive blood draw. I don’t want to waste time or money unless I’m in the realm of a good date to go in. Question for you, if you don’t mind. Why did you suggest 6 weeks?. Is there anything significant about 6 weeks, that I should knowabout?

Thanks

Thom

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Switch to Test. Cyp. injections. 50mg every 3.5 days works well for most men.
The transdermal cream application leads to way more DHT and Estradiol conversion compared to injecting.
HCG at 250IU twice per week does not elevate Estradiol much at all.

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I’ve tried HCG a number of times, hardly ever with success. It always takes me around 6 weeks to 2 months to feel stable and good after stopping. It’s not a hard and fast number but you’ll see a lot of advice to give new protocols or even dose alterations 8 weeks before testing. Considering the short half life of HCG compared to Test C, I’d make the assumption that you’ll probably need a little less time before getting an idea.

I agree that injecting will probably result in less aromatisation than creams, I don’t agree with 100/week or with the HCG comment. 250iu 3 times a week had a notable impact on my E2, shown by bloods. If you switch to injections, I’d start at 150mg/week and re-evaluate after 6 weeks and then increase or reduce the dose.

It isn’t the HCG causing that high Estradiol level, unless his dose is above 500IU twice weekly. It is the Test. Cream.

Lots and lots of terrible advice here, amplified by bro science.

@Thomtst your E2 is a non-concern. You are seeing this number go up and blaming your issues on that. You can’t raise testosterone and not expect E2 to fall into balance. The body handles this naturally.

If you do not need to be fertile RIGHT NOW you can drop the HCG and take it when you need to be. HCG can spike estradiol needlessly in many men and can throw of that ratio.

More importantly, what are your free testosterone levels on this protocol?

Hello Phoenix,

That’s very interesting. I had an appointment with my doc who told me “get off your AI, you won’t need it all will be well.” At the time I was injecting 50MG E3D T-Cyp about 6 months ago. I got off the AI and I became symptomatic from high E2 I was about 73 E2 sensitive score. The doc said I’m recommending you change to a Test Cream you won’t spike as much, and it should help you E2 level. He placed me on , (TC) (30ML) 200MG/ML applied twice daily, 25%. I still had a problem with the E2, so he dropped me to the same script, but lowered it to 20% vs.25%.

Question did I understand you to say since HCG has a short half-life the high E2 it can create should be gone in a week or two?

You are continuing to blame your issues on your E2 levels when it is the furthest thing from the truth. As long as you focus on that number you won’t figure out what your actual problem is.

What are your free T levels on that protocol?

Watch this when you can and get yourself caught up on the subject:

Dobossa,

Ok, my TT about 6 months ago while I was on .25 T Cyp EOD was 1300 range 264-916. My FT was 20 (range 6.6-18) E2 was 73. No HCG. Also, I like HCG, I would like it at higher doses if I could control my E2, and I know you say I’m focusing on the wrong number, but I have E2 sides so it must be an E2 issue, right?

I’ll repeat again:

There is no such thing as E2 issues. Watch that video where everything is explained.

Why do you like HCG? Guys typically feel better with T at higher doses than lower doses of T+HCG. Why are you taking the HCG?

What do you mean by .25 T Cyp EOD? How many milligrams of test were you injecting at a time? 50mg? From your labs I’d absolutely ditch the HCG. What is your height/weight and approximate bodyfat percentage?

I like HCG because I get fuller, and a great libido bounce. The .25ML was my T Cyp dose or 50MG. I understand there are “no” E2 issues. So where are my “E2” sides coming from Red face, BPH, ED weight gain and these only occur when my E2 is high. I’m not hard headed, I just need simple explanations since obviously I don’t have your knowledge, coupled with years of frustration trying to find an answer. I am grateful for the things you are sharing. But aside from watching an 1 hour video, which I very happy to do, I still don’t know where my sides are coming from if not E2, while E2 is high??

I just realized it’s you! I was just watching “your” video and then I just put the name an video together. Very cool and thank you! Do you have a registration page I can sign up on and start to learn?