T Nation

How Long to Adapt to 25% Lower Dose?

A few weeks ago I got some bloodwork back saying I was at >1500 TT and >50 FT. Doctor was not amused. Unfortunately she’s also my pituitary tumor doctor so I have to keep her somewhat happy.

I dropped from 200mg/week to 150mg, and initially took 3 days off totally (I inject daily) to speed the process. It’s been 2 weeks.

I recall hearing I need to wait about 6 weeks for it to level out. All I’ve noticed so far is less energy, less confidence, lass happiness, more ruminating, less motivation, and feeling slightly less aggressive (about the only positive). Noticed I’ve gone from caring about quarantine fitness and innovating in my career to relaxing in bed more and just doing the work I’m supposed to do, lol. Oh and I’ve gotten noticeably dumber - my girlfriend even laughs about it.

Just want to make sure I’m headed in the right direction waiting it out. I actually felt pretty decent on 150mg in the past so I assume I’m just adjusting.

Edit: I made the same change last Fall and I remembered posting on here 2-3 weeks later about how great I felt on the lower dose. Weird.

Lol just stop thinking about such little details, give it 8-12 weeks, then get bloodwork and assess after that. Nothing before homeostasis really matters.

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On 200mg per week of every day injections, did that relieve your low t symptoms?

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I remember you saying about your pituitary tumor. What is your treatment now?
What were your prolactin numbers when you have been diagnosed?

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I agree man but sucks slumping into a slump especially during this whole quarantine thing. Trying to evaluate sooner than later if something else is up or if the dose is too low.

Also pretty damn concerned about how dumb I’m getting. No joke I’ve almost gotten run over a few times and have had to simplify my work duties. I have taken Lunesta a few times lately for sleep though, who knows if that’s related.

Yea, I’d say so. But definitely added some aggression and slightly high blood pressure.

No treatment currently. None of the DAs helped me, and prolactin was never super high. Ended up deciding to just leave it alone.

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I thought you would operate it

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They won’t now :confused: also obviously would be quite a while before I’d be able to get into any hospital for that surgery now

Blood pressure usually returns back to normal upon homeostasis, especially on TRT doses.

In this study they gave patients 200 mg test/week for 1 year; which they did not find to significantly alter BP in men. Diastolic BP intially went slightly up but then returned to baseline.

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)58166-7/pdf

I’d argue it’s the best time to experiment with shit. Don’t have to go out and do that much shit for the time being. Just do your best to be productive. It sucks but you’ll be better long-term.

Above 50 FT is pretty high, very few people need more than that so I’d say it’s a descent experiment to try 150mg for 8-12 weeks. I feel pretty dumb when I’m lethargic and brainfogged too but just got to accept it. Biggestmistake2 people make is changing shit too abruptly.

You’ve got some good points here man. I also used to change stuff way too frequently…I’m almost kind of annoyed this time around when I didn’t make changes for months, my doctor is forcing me to. Ugh!

I also wish the test had the ability to show just how high my levels were, but it’s too late to ask for that I suppose. But an E2 of 60+ definitely would suggest high T levels.

Yeah, I was the same way. I changed my protocol as soon as I felt crappy a few days in a row, I just didn’t understand the real process happening in my body and my points of contact kept assuring me it was “high E2”, not specifically hormonal fluctuations still happening.

After trying 150mg to its full extent, you could also go back to 200mg and get a more specific test to measure total testosterone. I’m guessing you were still under 2000 TT.

You could also try looking for another physician to work with, most are just protecting their necks, not really people who actively read current research and strive to optimize their patients like they should.

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Funny you say all this, I was just thinking along those lines. I do really like the guy I’ve been seeing locally, and he’s done QA’s on Excelmale which is great, but he seems to think 700 is ideal for me. But, he hasn’t complained about me saying I felt great on 200mg/week. My endo (Dr Dobri in NYC, for brain tumor) saw my levels and she was the one to get all excited about them. Sucks because she’s a more crucial part of my treatment, and it’s taken years to find someone as great as she is. But like you said, I can’t blame her. TRT is controversial enough without them seeing levels off the chart.

I did make some strides in my side hobby/career (stock trading) while on the higher dose, but they weren’t that significant over my old dose I suppose.

Thinking worst case, can always go back to Defy or one of these clinics guys on here see that allow for higher doses, if it’s really that big of a difference.

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Yeah, a ton of people in Wallstreet are on TRT for performance enhancement.

If you do Defy, I recommend Dr. Saya, he’s really sharp and when I consulted with him he was fine with sticking to one variable at a time until I found a proper dose.

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It’s crazy man, within a couple of days of lowering my dose (remember I took 3 days off first), I took a dive and couldn’t think straight enough to fix it. It felt like everything I’d learned about trading just vanished.

I used to see Dr Saya but I couldn’t deal with the staff anymore - especially at the cost (which is fair, just not insurance cheap). Every time I’d have a problem, it seemed like the other staff there would make some senseless recommendation for a supplement or an AI. Dr Saya is in a league of his own though. Really valued every conversation with the guy.

Yep the staff messed me up terribly with AIs and recommending I curve my HCG, DHEA, and whatever other supplements whenever I called with a concern. Had to just suck it up and read mass amounts of published studies for myself, along with booking consultations with top the best physicians I could find, discussing regularly in quality forums like T-Nation, etc. It’s crazy whenever I meet someone that gets dialed in on the first try and has no idea about the struggle some of us have to go through.

Would you recommend her as an endocrinologist? I’m looking for someone valid in NYC to follow me in case I have a brain tumor.

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Absolutely. I feel like it took me years to find someone who doesn’t treat diabetes 99% of the time. She’s one of the ones who actually “gets” it. Isn’t afraid to try unusual treatments either. She prescribed me a Canadian DA for the tumor that I’ve wanted to try for years (she has a few patients on it actually).

Dr Nidhi Agrawal at NYU is great too, I was seeing her for a bit until she insisted I just see Dr Dobri. Couldn’t decide between them honestly, both wonderful doctors.

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Good news - after dropping to 150mg/week again, my endo threw in a blood test and it came back as TT 1062 and FT 32.5. Still waiting on E2 and the rest (tumor related stuff). Still crazy high for 150mg, but only been 3 weeks, and she’s not complaining - so much better this time around.