Say you do everything right on cycle, and your PCT is water tight....realistically when should you start feeling your own test level coming back?
All depends on the cycle and PCT I guess. If it's just testosterone alone, you'll feel back to normal pretty quick.
After my first cycle of test E, I felt natural again near the very end of my last week of nolvadex. And then you realize how much being "natural" can suck haha no wonder so many guys end up cruising on low doses inbetween cycle.
*edit- regarding libido, if done right you should never lose libido. If anything it'll be higher when on cycle and return to normal when your body is using only naturally produced testosterone.
Did you happen to use Deca?
Don't like it, will not touch it again.
I am 43, and went on a cutting cycle consisting off:
Prima 400mg p/week Weeks 1-10
Test Prop 300 mg p/week 1-10
Winny 50mg p/week weeks 5-10
I did not use an anti E as I dont suffer from gyno. My PCT was:
HCG 2500IU*2 for 2 weeks
DAA 4500mg p/day for 4 weeks
PCT Armitage for 4 weeks (JW product)
Clomid 50mg p/day for 3 weeks (took after the HCG)
After that lot my libido was very low, no real desire at all. Ball sack did not rise up on or off cycle though for some reason. So its now nearly 8 weeks post cycle and libido still low. I was told HCG can raise prolactin levels so 12 days ago I used L-Dopa by Now foods. No better. However....for the first 10 days I was taking it WITHOUT food - its supposed to be taken with food - could that be why it's not working? Any way, I thought back to when I took the HCG as I was just finishing the course - it was an OPENED amp that I half used months ago - it must of gone bad and I didn't realise at the time that HCG can only be kept in the fridge unopened for a short time. Anyway, I took another shot, then a few days later I snapped a vial by error so had to wait a few days to get some more - do you think this could be the reason I am struggling? I also think not using an anti-e was a massive mistake....
I'm with you on the Deca.
Dude, I'll bet your E is too high. Happens all the time. Guys don't think they need an AI because they're not gyno prone, but they still have high E. It's fine on cycle because your T is high enough to still have the right ratio of test:E to have a normal libido. Then they go into PCT and have way higher E than they do test, so their libido goes to shit.
We've seen it on this forum a billion times. It's also way harder to fix than it is just to prevent.
Bloodwork is the only way to know for sure, but I'll bet it's high E. Be prepared to have to use a low dose AI for a while. Just hope it doesn't tank your E too low, or your libido'll get fucked up again, and also hope you don't get oestrogen rebound or you'll be in the shit yet again.
USE YOUR AROMATASE INHIBITORS PEOPLE!!! THERE'S MORE TO HIGH E THAN JUST GYNO!!!!!!
I can't figure out why anyone wouldn't run Adex (or similar) throughout pretty much any cycle, whether or not they see symptoms of high E in the mirror. It's so cheap, readily available on the interwebz, and easy to incorporate. What's the downside?
a frightening amount of people think it hampers gains.
I'm not saying that you did OP, just that a lot of people do.
A reason could be.. (as in my case)
AI's make me feel like shit.. Small dose aromasin taking everyday and within 4 days I feel awful drop the stuff and start feeling better within a couple.. I have also just recently tried Adex (liquid) and my joints energy and mood tanked.. (good bloods E2 was 19)
I'd love to hear opinions on it !
there are a few who seem to be mega responders to AIs and feel like hell. Reed won't touch them, and he runs some pretty high doses.
Genetics genetics genetics. Can't pick 'em, just got to make the best of 'em.
Always like seeing you in a thread..
I can expect to see some reliable advice.. I will continue to experiment and get bloodwork
oh stop it, you'll make me blush
I took some bad advice.....I was told that if I don't suffer from gyno I should not be adding in more chemicals.....anyway I'm not making the same mistake again!
Yogi, I agree with you, must be high E....gotta get it right next time, can't go on like this for every PCT. What is weird is that my energy and well being is very good...strange!
Let me ask a question regarding high estrogen levels
If you are taking an AI while on cycle, but then start to taper off the testosterone and cruise at low doses (250mg, or even as low as 125mg per week) before coming off completely, will your estrogen levels also lower themselves over time? therefore not requiring any AI during cruise weeks?
This has been my approach for current cycle ^ I don't think its possible for estrogen levels to stay high forever. Especially after using nolvadex as PCT after 6 weeks on low dose testosterone
I've taken some hcg the past couple of weeks and feel much better, libido back up thank god! Now on 50mg Clomid for 3 weeks. Im def running an AI on all my future courses as well as HCG, Clomid and Aromasin for PCT.
yeah, ya may want to tweak how you use HCG next time, as it doesn't help your HPTA recover. it simply keeps the testes active... if you go into PCT with high test levels (or worse, high estrogen levels), then your PCT isn't gonna work.
this is also why running an AI can be helpful in post cycle, as well....
i like that you used DAA in PCT, as i think it can be really useful there. however, i haven't seen any data that shows it's effective for more than 2 weeks (at 3,000 mg/day).
i'm also not a clomid fan... there's data that shows it reduces responsiveness to GnRH, which means your body releases less LH when GnRH is released. however, this does not happen with Tamoxifen (Nolvadex).... also, mg for mg, i'd say Nolvadex is way more effective, with less side effects.
If I go into PCT with high test levels PCT may not work? eh??
i know it sounds odd, but if you raise your test with HCG, then the PCT simply isn't gonna work (because of the negative feedback mechanism). HCG acts as LH, so the body will assume that the HPTA is recovered, where it clearly isn't. the only piece addressed by HCG in the HPTA is the testes.
addressing the last step in the process is prolly the least important in the whole scheme of things... the Hypothalamus needs to release GnRH, and the Pituitary needs to recognize the GnRH and release LH...
here's a study that kind of illustrates what we're talking about:
although the doses used are quite high, the HCG raises the guy's testosterone levels temporarily, but they go back down for several months, and then go back up....
hope this helps.
But I thought as long as you take Clomid/Aromasin after HCG you will be ok?