hey guys, on tuesday (today is thurs) i shot 600mg deca (as a frontload) and also started taking 25 mg of dbol per day. each successive shot of deca will be 300mg. how long do yall think it will take before noticeable effects kick in? thanks.
5-6 days for a noticeable boost from the d-bol. 4, maybe 5 weeks for your deca to kick in.
you should consider adding test to your cycle. IMO, get some cyp and run 400 mg/week.
4-5 weeks for the deca? does that mean i should feel it for 4-5 weeks after my last shot? i'd like to run test along with it, however all my funds are otherwise committed. also, i saw on another thread the idea that dbol would not be enough to prevent "deca dick" when they are used together. i was under the impression that it would be, any one?
What's Decca Dick?
the bulk of your gains from the deca will start showing in week 4 or 5.....at the dose you are running, you will probably "feel it" for 2-3 weeks after your last shot....wait at least 3 full weeks to start your PCT after your last deca injection.
an equal amount of test with the deca should be sufficient to avoid unwanted sides. why take the chance of getting deca dick...pick up some cyp or enan.
the search engine would be a good tool to use.
It's one of the possible side effects of using deca at without testosterone, or dostinex, or proviron. If you don't know what the later two are then do a search. Eitherway the first option, test, is probably the best one IMO anyway. Unless you react very badly to test for some reason. 400 mgs should be enough to both give some synergy to the deca and dbol ie. increased gains in strength and size, plus you should probably still be able to get it up. BTW, not everyone gets decca dick and dbol MIGHT be enough to do the trick. Or it might not. IMO it's up to you to figure out whether or not you want to find out if you do or dont' experiance this side effect. BTW what's your pct look like?
typically it takes to the end of the third week to see good solid muscle gains begin. That is of course if you front loaded the long acting drugs, if you did, there is no difference between the longer esters and the shorter esters.
Some will argue that gains are noticed right away, but these are by individuals who have used steroids before, and are only gaining back muscle size they had lost. Muscle memory is a completely different thing, and should not be considered as part of the actual weight that you gain on your cycle, as your muscles had retained the ability to quickly return to it's previous size.
To obtain new muscle gains, it takes time for an increase in satellite cells and androgen receptors, and noticable hypertrophy to happen, you may notice water retention before this point, but that has nothing to do with the actual muscles, and more to do with the steroids effects on your kidneys by way of retention of electrolytes. Muscle gains don't happen overnight.
thanks for the imput guys,
wide guy, my pct is either clomid or nolva (not sure yet, have both) Carbolin 19, and creatine. after the clomid or nolva runs out, its TRIBEX, RED KAT, and M. its going to be a long pct b/c (i know most think its not possible) i'm going in w/ the mindset that i'm not losing an ounce of my gains. even if it is impossible, i'm sure that mindset is most condusive to keeping gains.
It doesn't matter how positively you think, it is not going to help you any. You going against the laws of basic pharmacology and physiology here. Put all that stuff aside and get yourself some testosterone enanthate to bridge off on at the end of your cycle.
hey, i had asked a question earlier about bridging, most people didnt think my idea was a good one though. Cy mentioned using 100mg enanthate to come off with if androgel was not avialable to someone. i dont have either, but do you think sustanon would work similarly? thanks
You've already explained and laid out a protocol of how to do the bridge off to me in the past P-22. But just for the interest of this post could you post it again?
Yes, this is something I would love to see for this post and the other we discussed about not using clomid and nolva. I am kind of in limbo here....
Well this is a very simple concept.
The first thing you have to do is establish at what point the primary injectable AAS used in your cycle will begin to fall off to levels well below physiological norms. There needs to be miniscule levels left to make 'room' for your own natural testosterone production as your body will only allow a finite amount of hormone before it shuts down the hpta.
Keep in mind that only about 2 % of all natural testosterone is FREE - available for binding to the AR. This means that if you still have any 'nandrolone' for example releasing into your body, that will further reduce the ratio of testosterone to other left-over exogenouse sex hormones left in your body from your cycle. These need time to clear, but if you don't use any exogenous test while these clear, your libido will suffer.
Keep in mind that these other steroids aromatize, also, converting to estrogen and progesterone which further cause suppression. These hormones pile up over the length of a cycle. Estrogen and progesterone are nasty hormones to the male body in high doses, as they can cause testicular cell death, and have longer half lives then testosterone- meaning they stick around longer causing suppression.
This is why a 'crash' occurs, as male hormones are depleted suppression is still present due to the accumulated levels of estrogen and progesteone.
At this point you can treat the problem with clomid or nolva, but recovery will only work as long as the estrogen is held at bay, and it won't work if progesterone is present, no matter how much clomid is used.
The better approach is to use an aromatase inhibitor during the cycle to keep estrogen levels from rising. And end your steroids that convert to progesterone earlier to ensure progesterone caused suppression is not a factor at your cycle's end.
At the end of the cycle providing you have kept estrogen in check, ended the progesterone converting hormones early enough, You can then begin what is basically HRT - hormone replacement therapy.
Start at 200 mg perferably test enathate
Week 2 100 mg test enathate
week 3 100 mg test enathate
week 4 50 mg test enathate
week 5 50 mg test enathate
week 6 nothing you are finished!
Small amounts of femara or arimidex can be used the first or second week, but after this you shouldn't need any as the testosterone you are using should be below your normal physiological weekly output, therfore the estrogen aromatized will not cause any further suppression, as it will continue to taper off, as you taper your hrt, allowing natural levels of testoterone production to slowly increase.
Over the course of the six weeks you will gradually regain full testicular size. There will be no need for hcg use which actually exasperates recovery, and there will not be an interuption in libido, or 'crash'. You can continue your workouts as per usual, without worrying about muscle loss due to being in a catabolic state.
You will loose some size, that is a given, but your recovery will be much smoother and the size you keep will be much more than any other method. You will retain your leaness, hardness and your vascularity. Basically you will continue to look and feel like a god.
Granted your libido will never be exactly the same as it was before you took your first heavy androgenic cycle, but that is the price you pay.
If you follow this protocol closely, you will find that it is much more advantageous than using the short cycle approach as you won't have to worry any longer about crashing that often occurs with longer cycles.
As a final note I must also add that this is much more healthier for you then using clomid and nolva long term which have some nasty sides. Testosterone is a natural occuring hormone in you body, and your body can not distinguish the difference between endogenously produced test, and exogenously injected test. When administered in subphysiological levels, it is considered hrt, not a steroid cycle, and the health risks are nominal.
Dude u shot this shit and U have so little experience w/ steroids U have to ask when u'll begin to see results......Ur fucking crazy bro! I'm shaking my head in disbeleif.
I bit my tongue on that one. When I did my first cycle I probably asked a similar question, even though I had done around 2 years of pretty steady research. I'm hoping this was just kinda one of those questions you ask to hear what other people have to say, and that he does have a clue. That's why I aksed the pct question.
Test where you getting all those larger women? LOL.
Wal Mart, bulk discount isle.
Prisoner#22, thanks for the great info. I have a question for you though. You said "The better approach is to use an aromatase inhibitor during the cycle
to keep estrogen levels from rising."
What would you reccomend as a aromatose inhibitor here? Would nolvadex be sufficient? And at what dosages.
not the pris...but here's a basic answer for you.
Nolvadex is a SERM, which basically means it inhibits estrogen from binding at certain receptor sites (breast, bone, liver, and the pituitary). a SERM (eg. clomid and/or nolva) would not control/reduce systemic estrogen and is not sufficient for your intended purpose.
Aromatase inhibitors act through a different mechanism. Instead of blocking estrogen from binding to certain receptors, they inhibit the conversion of androgens into estrogen in muscle, fat, tissues etc etc.
typical AI dosages.....
letro @ 1.25mg - 2.5mg EOD
arimidex @ 0.5mg - 1mg EOD
The best rule of thumb for dosages of the AI is Less is Best. Start out with .5 mg of anastrozol (arimidex) every day. If you find that is not enough then slowly titrate it up.
Same with Femara (letrozole). Begin with 1 mg daily. This should work, but if you find it isn't then titrate the dose up untill the desired effect is reached.
If your dosing is too high you will have a decreased libido, irregardless of the amount of test you run.
If the dosing is too low, most people begin to notice their nipples begining to swell, tingle or itch - the first stages of gynocomastia.
Using the liquid products over pills, gives you the advantage of being able to acurately titrate the dose for the desired effect.