T Nation

How Long for HP Mass Workouts?


Ideally, how much time should it take for each upper and lower performance training days?


Depends on your WO tempo, conditioning, drive, work capacity, and more...

My Week 1 WO takes 50 mins. I've done it 3x so far.

Week 2 I am assuming will take me 60 mins

Week 3 with extended waves 70 mins. tops.


are you doing the secondary exercise too? ie ramping a lower body exercise on upper body day? to work that into week 1 took me over an hour...


When you were compiling your numbers based on your MTW, did you do that all by hand Mutsanah? I'm going to spend some time today creating an excel table where I simply enter in my MTW's for all of my lifts and it compiles all of my estimated weights to use for each set for all 6 weeks...this is obviously going to be useful when I retest my max on my lifts and run the cycle again after the 6 weeks. Just wondering if you or anyone else has done this yet...


Mutsanah, care to share your workout log for the 3 workouts? thanks


Mustanah, when doing lower body pressing, does it bother you that the weight feels really light? I did an upper body pressing workout as outlined and liked it but that is 87.5% as compared to 80%. Also, how do you feel squatting and doing another lower body pressing exercise two days in a row? I am worried about my joints being in pain and having lower performance on the second day.


@illigixxer Thibs touched on this a bit in the live feed for the program. His recommendation was to make sure you are on the Anaconda protocol while doing this, otherwise recovery from day 1 to 2 to 3 would be very difficult even with a well planned diet already in place.

He said you can still make progress, it would just be slower and not as dramatic. Another suggestion was to plan more neural charge days or rotate the upper and lower body days more so that you don't end up getting sore, more sore, and so sore you can't lift.


CT mentioned in livespill his workouts are close to 2 hours.


Not when I accelerate the bar with the 'rocket launch' style Thibs advocates. This is what I did today:

Power Clean:
All sets 3 reps
45, 95, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 155

Back Squat:
155, 185, 225, 250, 275, 300, 320, 340, 300 (My 1RM is about 475)

Conventional DL:
225, 275, 315, 335, 355, 375, 335

OH Press:
135, 145, 155, 160, 162.5, 165, 145

Didn't rush it - took about 70 mins.

We'll see what happens tomorrow, same WO.


Nice numbers.. at least i hope so -) they are very much spot on to mine. Back in the training zone for 10 weeks or so now i suppose.. About a 8 or 9mth layoff.

Edit: Whoops, i never back squatted that kind of weight though. I use the front squat.


Mutsanah, you didnt include the eccentric-less workout?


Adding that this week - wanted to make sure I would survive week 1 - actually was dying to train heavy Sunday so that's a great indicator for me. Week 2 starts today...

I did DL 3x last week with those same #'s working up to MTW 375lbs and waving down for last explosive set - I am built to DL, not so much for squat, but Thibs recommended in LiveSpill to sub in front squat instead so will make that change this week and front squat 3x and DL 3x again plus eccentric less...


please keep us updated mutsanah


Sure - here's what I did today:

15lb Med Ball Push Press OH Throw for height: 5 reps, 3 sets

Stand OH Press: 135, 145, 155, 165, 170, 150, 155, 160, 165, 170, 150
Super w/
DB Shrugs: 75's x 5-7 reps, didn't really count

Incline Bench:
155, 175, 195, 205, 215, 195, 205, 215, 195
Super w/
Rear Delt DB Front Raise chest supported on incline bench - 20lb DB's x 5 reps

Incline Bench from pins:
185, 195, 205, 215, 225, 235, 215, 225, 235, 215
Super w/
Face pulls - 5 reps

BW Jump Squats - 3 reps

Front Squats:
135, 155, 175, 195, 215, 235, 245, 225

All main exercises are 3 reps

Took me about 65 mins - felt energized after WO and this is a MAG-10 Pulse Fast day for me - took 2 scoops Anaconda during WO, 8 pulses MAG-10, 4 before WO, 4 after, Alpha GPC -90 WO and one about +90 WO.


My weights are almost the exact same as yours. Thus I noted when my waves looked different than yours I noticed that for your upper body in your waves your dropping down 20lbs on the presses, inclines, and inclines with pins. My understanind was with a 200-600 max for upper body work, the waves are only -10, +5 +5, -10 (for the first week example). Yours are 20lbs though with some 10lb jumps (after using 20lbs increment jumps as a neural ramp to your max target weight) Also, my understanding was lower body work (with a max of 200-600lb) the first wave is -40, +20, +20, -40. You did only a 20lb wave. Is this just your individual tailoring? For me, I've been doing the upper body work as written but 10lb waves don't seem to be right for some reason. As 250lb to 240lb to 245lb to 250lb back to 240lb doesn't seem like enough of a difference in weight for the wave to reap most benefits.


I've been wondering this too, almost as if it was another typo and the jumps should have been bigger as written in the program.


if its not a typo i can kind of understand why you would be able to train the upper body closer to your MTW in the wave than with lower body. I actually tried the opposite on the last workout i did, on pressing i dropped 20 pounds of my MTW and lower body i dropped only 10. it was funny how much difference that made, and not for the better i might add.

I feel alot better when pressing upper body if i stay closer to my MTW for some reason, almost like going back down 20 pounds and coming back up is TOO much of a difference and takes me out of the zone. and with lower body pressing, dropping the 40 pounds helps considering that it can be stressful on the nervous system, so the closer you are to the MTW (only dropping 10 pounds) can feel like hell. Thats just my 2 cents though.


Interesting, thanks for the observation.


Though it would have been incredibly too cumbersome, it almost makes more sense to have a wave based on percentages. The lower body workout, I'm starting to worry, might almost be too light as every workout seems like a westside speed day. In fact, if you consider the percentages of the weight you're using its roughly 60-65% of your max for the waves on lower body day.

Obviously the WS'ers do it coupled with a max effort day 95+% of their max and their main goal is strength, not hypertrophy. But at some point working at only 60-70& max regardless of how well you compensate with acceleration might leave your top end strength pretty crappy at the end. I know when I first ran through I,BB program/perfect reps I think the weights I used were too heavy for both upper/lower thus why my strength regressed so significantly across the board on all lifts.

I'm going with the program as written but have the fear that not utilizing at least one day with a heavier percentage of your max - especially with squats and deads - might compromise potential gains in both strength and hypertrophy.


One more note on the weight suggestion for HP mass workouts that makes me uncertain. CT's recommendations for neural charge workouts are to use core lifts at 70% OF YOUR MAX (for lifts at least not jumps/throws) for 3 reps. My squat max prior to this was 425 x 3 = that equates to a max of roughly 467. 70% of that is 326. For the typical HP workouts, then, I use 80% of 425 = 340 with waves down to 300 and back up. So in essence we end up with half the Strength workout at a lighter load than we would use for an NC workout.

The neural charge workouts are supposed to be energizing non-fatiguing, I get that. And the strength sessions shouldn't be incredibly exhausting though you should certainly be more fatigued than a NC workout(and I know NC workouts are whole body and the volume is not even comparable to strength sessions). But when you look at the weights suggested to use for both, I just wonder, wonder, wonder if a heavier load would be advised somewhere in this program. Yes, this is ultra focus on the "numbers" which should not be our primary concern, just thought I would throw this out there.