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How Long Between Reps for DL?

Let me first say that the past 5 weeks are the first time I have seriously weight trained in my life. It was actually coming across this site that really motivated me to give weight training a serious effort. The amount of information here is fantastic.

I am currently using Joe DeFranco’s modified WS4SB program. The other day I was doing dead lifts with the trap bar as part of my ME lower body day and one of the trainers told me I was doing them incorrectly. I asked him what was wrong and he told me my form was correct but I was letting the weight rest too long on the ground.

He told me that the deadlift was an olympic movement and the bar speed should be fast. He told me that I should be pulling the weight again as soon as it touches the ground and if I can’t do so then that means the weight is too heavy. He told me that by placing the weight down for a few seconds between each rep I lose the stretch-reflex benefit.

Is this correct? I have found different answers looking through this site. I was on my last set (6th) going for 3 reps so I was pausing a few seconds between pulls in order to give my best effort.

Any opinions/answers to this would be greatly appreciated.

It is acceptable to fully dead the weight between reps. Eliminating the stretch reflex simply makes it so there is no “bounce” and each rep is forcing you to generate the same amount of power as the last.

Last time I checked, the deadlift wasnt an olympic movement, especially not with the trap bar.

I second that. Its perfectly ok to let the bar rest, you’ll get more out of it actually, the whole thing the guy above me said, no stretch refex=more work each rep>more work>more results. The only thing the trainer said that was correct was that it SHOULD be fast.

you should be pulling the weight as fast as you can every time. Even when you are on a Max effort and it isn’t really moving fast, pull it like you want to jump in the air with it. This will activate your fast twitch fibers more.

The guy is right in that the stretch reflex is a benefit, in that you could lift more weight with it than without it.

However, by doing deadlifts as the guy suggests the neural aspect of the reflex takes away from the actual work that the muscles have to perform.

I think I’m right in thinking that the whole point of box squatting in the westside template is to eliminate the stretch reflex and to build more explosive strength without it.

Do not worry about “losing” the stretch reflex because its just that, a reflex (same as breathing), you don’t lose them.

If you do want to train the elastic element of strength then Joe DeFranco implements a jumping day for lower body on his WS4SB program now. Check the website.

If I’m wrong on anything I’m sure I’ll get corrected!

Good luck getting hench.

Personally I would only do “touch and go” deadlifts in my warmup sets. The risk of injury due to not getting “tight” before lifting a heavy dl is too high, IMO.

If you just kept doing reps like this guy suggested, when are you supposed to breathe? I don’t fancy breathing out when I’m supporting 400lbs.

[quote]tikkigod wrote:
The other day I was doing dead lifts with the trap bar as part of my ME lower body day and one of the trainers told me I was doing them incorrectly. I asked him what was wrong and he told me my form was correct but I was letting the weight rest too long on the ground.

He told me that the deadlift was an olympic movement and the bar speed should be fast. He told me that I should be pulling the weight again as soon as it touches the ground and if I can’t do so then that means the weight is too heavy. He told me that by placing the weight down for a few seconds between each rep I lose the stretch-reflex benefit.
[/quote]
His advice is worth what you paid for it.
Deadlift NOT any Olympic lift.
Bar speed? fast is right, but controlled with momentum minimized
Lift it as soon as it touches the ground, if you can’t, it is too light? I disagree. If you can maintain the speed rep after rep after rep, the load is too light.
his mentioning stretch reflex after all this means he read a buzz word in a pamphlet somewhere.

How have your results been? Body composition and performance-wise?

Just touch and go…it’s not that complicated. You are attempting to do work, with intensity, meaning as much work in as little amount of time as possible.

Thanks very much for everyone’s input. I went back to completely deading the weight and I really think I get much more out of the deadlift that way.

Hooker#1: I saw that jump day workout on Defranco’s website several weeks ago and am thinking of implementing it into my workout. However, I play basketball twice a week and don’t have much free time right now so that may have to wait.

jp_dubya: I have really been encouraged by my results so far. I am 6’6" and when I started the program (about 5 weeks ago) only weighed 183lbs (truly a skinny bastard).

I now weigh 192 and believe most if not all of the weight gain is muscle. My ME deadlift has increased from 180X3 to 220X3. I know I have a long way to go and am still weak but I am happy with the start.

[quote]Make1tRa1n wrote:
Just touch and go…it’s not that complicated. You are attempting to do work, with intensity, meaning as much work in as little amount of time as possible.[/quote]

Touch and goes allow the lifter to maintain the stretch reflex, which in turn makes the movement easier. While he should not be taking long breaks between reps (although there was an article on here several weeks ago that touted this as a guaranteed way to make any movement more difficult to complete a set of), he should be fully deading the weight between reps. Besides, if he is lifting on a rubberized platform, he is also generating momentum from the bounce with each rep.

You are referring to training density. Intensity refers to the proximity of a weight to the lifter’s maximum capacity.

To the OP. Dont listen to that trainer. Do what works for you. If youve been fully deading the weight, and your lift has been increasing regularly, keep it up.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:

Touch and goes allow the lifter to maintain the stretch reflex, which in turn makes the movement easier. While he should not be taking long breaks between reps (although there was an article on here several weeks ago that touted this as a guaranteed way to make any movement more difficult to complete a set of), he should be fully deading the weight between reps. [/quote]

Do you remember the name of the article?

I prefer to stand up between every rep. It gives me better control of the movement and I can change the grip.

[quote]tikkigod wrote:

jp_dubya: I have really been encouraged by my results so far. I am 6’6" and when I started the program (about 5 weeks ago) only weighed 183lbs (truly a skinny bastard).
[/quote]

Good work. Hard to argue with success. When it doesn’t anymore, switch it up.

The Olympic lift comment is priceless. Even if it was an Olympic lift, it wouldn’t be a multiple rep lift. So the stretch-reflex would never come into play anyway.

I think it was something like “Make any exercise harder”

The technique caught my eye because it was called “cluster fucks”

PLEASE when asking a question on here or listening to advice, keep in mind what your goal is.

I can’t answer your question specifically as it relates to the Westside ME program because I haven’t done it. But if you are training for your maximum effort, it would make more sense to rest between efforts. On the other hand if, if you are trying to train your stretch reflex which applies more in sports then you would do the touch and go. If you are trying to build muscle then you will go a little slower overall unless you are using an extremely heavy wieght.(Then the weight most likely will have you going slow regardless of how fast you pull)

You will get a ton of conflicting advice from people because everybody has their own agenda. If you have no specific goal but to workout then it is good to try different methods. But don’t just try them, learn from them. Every time you do something differently pay attention to how it feels at the moment, an hour later and days later. How does it effect other lifts, how does it make you look, DOES IT MAKE SENSE?

On a side note, I’ve never witnessed an Olympic deadlift, maybe this is a new event. Are you sure you were not doing a clean, I can’t imagine a trainer telling you that.

Well let’s go straight to the source:

DeFranco’s “Super Strength” DVD shows actual workout footage of his athletes doing a shitload of exercises, among them deadlifts. On the two examples where multiple reps are performed, his athletes are clearly not doing “touch-and-go” but resting anywhere from 2-5 seconds, either to take a big breath and get set or to reset grip.

I hope that helped.

[quote]FricFrac wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:

Touch and goes allow the lifter to maintain the stretch reflex, which in turn makes the movement easier. While he should not be taking long breaks between reps (although there was an article on here several weeks ago that touted this as a guaranteed way to make any movement more difficult to complete a set of), he should be fully deading the weight between reps.

Do you remember the name of the article?

[/quote]

It was in a recent TC article but he was referencing an earlier CT article.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Well let’s go straight to the source:

DeFranco’s “Super Strength” DVD shows actual workout footage of his athletes doing a shitload of exercises, among them deadlifts. On the two examples where multiple reps are performed, his athletes are clearly not doing “touch-and-go” but resting anywhere from 2-5 seconds, either to take a big breath and get set or to reset grip.

I hope that helped.[/quote]

That does, thank you. I am thinking of getting that DVD b/c I really enjoy the WS4SB template so far. Is it worth the $50?

[quote]tikkigod wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Well let’s go straight to the source:

DeFranco’s “Super Strength” DVD shows actual workout footage of his athletes doing a shitload of exercises, among them deadlifts. On the two examples where multiple reps are performed, his athletes are clearly not doing “touch-and-go” but resting anywhere from 2-5 seconds, either to take a big breath and get set or to reset grip.

I hope that helped.

That does, thank you. I am thinking of getting that DVD b/c I really enjoy the WS4SB template so far. Is it worth the $50?
[/quote]

Yep.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
PLEASE when asking a question on here or listening to advice, keep in mind what your goal is.

I can’t answer your question specifically as it relates to the Westside ME program because I haven’t done it. But if you are training for your maximum effort, it would make more sense to rest between efforts. On the other hand if, if you are trying to train your stretch reflex which applies more in sports then you would do the touch and go. If you are trying to build muscle then you will go a little slower overall unless you are using an extremely heavy wieght.(Then the weight most likely will have you going slow regardless of how fast you pull)

You will get a ton of conflicting advice from people because everybody has their own agenda. If you have no specific goal but to workout then it is good to try different methods. But don’t just try them, learn from them. Every time you do something differently pay attention to how it feels at the moment, an hour later and days later. How does it effect other lifts, how does it make you look, DOES IT MAKE SENSE?

On a side note, I’ve never witnessed an Olympic deadlift, maybe this is a new event. Are you sure you were not doing a clean, I can’t imagine a trainer telling you that.[/quote]

You are right, I should have specified what my ultimate goal is. I am 25 years old and my ultimate goal is to become a better athlete. I play basketball twice a week in a corporate league and I was tired of getting pushed around by less skilled but stronger players. I was a decent athlete (and stronger) in high school and college.

I want to regain this lost strength and develop more explosiveness and the ability to hold my ground in the paint. I suppose my desire for explosiveness dictates I do more of a touch and go but according to Defranco in order to develop explosiveness I need to build a base of pure strength.

What I have been doing seems to be working as I now find myself getting quicker and stronger. I can now grab a rebound and easily go right back up for a two-handed dunk and I can also more easily hold my ground in the paint.

I appreciate your questioning b/c it forced me to actually write down my goal for training. Also, I’m positive I was deadlifting. Is it even possible to do a clean with a trapbar?

One more thing, I know this should have probably been posted in the beginners section but for some reason that section was missing when I originally posted.

Thanks again for all the input.