T Nation

How Long Before Strength Loss?


#1

I'm starting the 4th week of my PCT today, 2nd week of Nolva, (10 week cycle) and I keep waiting for the weight loss and loss of strength, but it hasn't come yet. My arms/chest/legs have all been breaking out nicely for a couple weeks, so I know I'm in recovery mode....am I lucky or is the worst yet to come?


#2

Obviously you will lose some size and strength, but the amount will depend on how you spend these next couple of weeks/months. No doubt you have to lose some water weight etc, but for me personally and maybe others will agree, after my first cycle I kept my calories high, decreased volume, added some more rest time, and increased my amino acids and was able to maintain a majority of my gains.


#3

What drug(s) were used?


#4

you will loose a little but you’ll be surprised how much you keep if your diet and training is still strong.


#5

I’m in the 3rd week into nolva pct after my test 500mg/w and I’ve dropped about 7 lbs of water. My face deflated and the arms lost a tiny bit of mass. No real noticable loss in strength, just a little less motivated in the gym. Weight is holdin steady now it seems. A little acne on the chest. I think if you can keep the motivation to push it hard in the gym, the strength should stay.


#6

[quote] Brook wrote:
What drug(s) were used?[/quote]

250mg Test E E3D (500/wk) week 1-10
30 mg Dbol ED week 1-4 1/2

I think I’m seeing some of the water/puffyness start to go…but strength remains the same- which I love. I still have the same motivation to hit the gym and still no libido crash.

I’m also taking Alpha Male in conjunction with Nolva… I think I saw Bill Roberts suggest it somewhere…


#7

How were your gains from this cycle? It was your first correct? Good that you are having such an easy post cycle. Many don’t feel near as well.


#8

I usually have a rocky few weeks around 2-3 weeks after I finish my PCT


#9

Well that’s an optimistic way of looking at things. “I keep waiting for weightloss and strength loss” Fuck that train as if there’s no tomorrow.


#10

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
How were your gains from this cycle? It was your first correct? Good that you are having such an easy post cycle. Many don’t feel near as well.[/quote]

Pretty great. Bench went up 50 lbs. Squat went up about 70 lbs. DL went up about 60 lbs.
Weight gain right now is sitting at about 22-24 lbs.


#11

[quote]Turbo Mysterio wrote:
Well that’s an optimistic way of looking at things. “I keep waiting for weightloss and strength loss” Fuck that train as if there’s no tomorrow. [/quote]

Oh really? See I was just going to stop training altogether because I thought the gear had made me big enough. I guess your advice, in some way, might make sense though. I dunno, I think I’d rather ride the couch for awhile though and see what happens.


#12

The test will take a while to drop all the water and stop giving a kick… most find that the whole 4-6 weeks of a stasis period (at 100mg/wk) is enough after a cycle to continue libido and gains - now, i know you didnt do this, but it should tell you something about the length of time it can take for the ‘benefits’ of exo test to drop to insufficient levels.
That said, you will not be getting anything from the test 4 weeks post injection.

You are in your 4th week. I personally would not be using any hormonal product post PCT - to allow the body to normalise.
You will likely find that you feel the crash in strength and size mostly after PCT - i find a distinct increase in libido etc… during Tamoxifen usage - it is an effective drug for that purpose IME.

You gained very well, it is clear that you HAD the room to gain, as those who are a little more advanced can only dream of 70lb gains in strength, or 30lb gains in size, but well done - a very good cycle by all accounts :slight_smile:


#13

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Oh really? See I was just going to stop training altogether because I thought the gear had made me big enough. I guess your advice, in some way, might make sense though. I dunno, I think I’d rather ride the couch for awhile though and see what happens. [/quote]

I normally eschew such sarcastic displays, but this is EXACTLY my style, and therefor hilarious.

Interesting that you say this… I ran a 4 weeker of TE and Proviron (just an experiment) and continued to gain size into week 7, and I’m now into week 8 and I’m still setting PR’s in the gym. Ran nolva@ 40/day for 10 days, 10 days after last inject, and HCG throughout cycle, and last hcg was was 5 days after last test dose . Libido is certainly nowhere near when I was running test, but no real “crash” and the wiener works fine. The hard, full feeling to my muscles left right as the test was running down in my body.

This was not a hugely productive cycle, but was more of a shove in the right direction/plateau busting thing. Gained about 5 lbs, Set PR’s in the big 3. Recovering fast and still setting PR’s. I’m starting to think that short cycles are the way to go.

Just sharing my experience.


#14

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
Well that’s an optimistic way of looking at things. “I keep waiting for weightloss and strength loss” Fuck that train as if there’s no tomorrow.

Oh really? See I was just going to stop training altogether because I thought the gear had made me big enough. I guess your advice, in some way, might make sense though. I dunno, I think I’d rather ride the couch for awhile though and see what happens. [/quote]

Solid reply haha.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Have you managed to maintain your weight?


#15

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
Well that’s an optimistic way of looking at things. “I keep waiting for weightloss and strength loss” Fuck that train as if there’s no tomorrow.

Oh really? See I was just going to stop training altogether because I thought the gear had made me big enough. I guess your advice, in some way, might make sense though. I dunno, I think I’d rather ride the couch for awhile though and see what happens. [/quote]

Your mentality is bullshit. The change will occur but their is no benefit in waiting for the worst.


#16

Oh come on TM, you have to see some humor here. A sarcastic bro such as yourself should be able to appreciate a witty retort.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for what you’re saying. Just keep setting PR’s and train balls to wall.


#17

[quote]OTS1 wrote:
Oh come on TM, you have to see some humor here. A sarcastic bro such as yourself should be able to appreciate a witty retort.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for what you’re saying. Just keep setting PR’s and train balls to wall. [/quote]

It just seems that some users, become to dependent on AAS that they forget how they got the initial numbers in the first place. I’m not going to say that taking 50mg of dbol before training isn’t a great aid, at least personally, but when one chooses to give the body a break in the quest for recovery one merely cannot fall of the wagon and train with the same intensity as a 85 year old geriatric because he/she is “off”. At least thats my practice


#18

[quote]Game Time wrote:

Solid reply haha.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Have you managed to maintain your weight?[/quote]

I’m 24 (and a half :wink: ) and so far I’ve been maintaining my weight.

I’m both surprised and not so surprised that my squat went up as much as it did. One of the reasons it went up so much was because prior to the cycle I couldn’t train my legs as much as I wanted or as hard due a certain sport that practiced during the week and had games on weekends- however the season finished at the end of the first week of this cycle. So obviously once I was able to start hitting my legs hard the numbers were going to go up.

But- during the Dbol phase I got really bad back pumps (even when taking taurine) and I stopped doing deadlifts altogether and I could only do maybe 3 sets of squats before having to lay down on my back. So really all the gains there came after week five.


#19

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Game Time wrote:

Solid reply haha.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Have you managed to maintain your weight?

I’m 24 (and a half :wink: ) and so far I’ve been maintaining my weight.

I’m both surprised and not so surprised that my squat went up as much as it did. One of the reasons it went up so much was because prior to the cycle I couldn’t train my legs as much as I wanted or as hard due a certain sport that practiced during the week and had games on weekends- however the season finished at the end of the first week of this cycle. So obviously once I was able to start hitting my legs hard the numbers were going to go up.

But- during the Dbol phase I got really bad back pumps (even when taking taurine) and I stopped doing deadlifts altogether and I could only do maybe 3 sets of squats before having to lay down on my back. So really all the gains there came after week five. [/quote]

Back pumps are baby food. Bicep pumps are the worst IME.


#20

TM: Agreed