T Nation

How Important is Strength


#1

Hi chaps,

I don't post on here often, but it is my favourite subforum and I feel that for the most part you guys have goals that are the most in line with my own. I don't currently participate in any combat sports, but I've done boxing and MMA in the past and I'm very interested in both self-defence and MMA.

I train at home with kettlebells and my primary goal is to be physically capable in a survival situation (be that combat, becoming lost in the mountains, falling into a river etc). My secondary goal - not that it matters - is physique-oriented.

I feel that certain aspects of my current strength training are working well - one-arm swings and rows with my 40kg do a great job of strengthening my pulling muscles, and I feel that before long I'll be ready to progress to the 48kg. Unfortunately I've done a lot of trial and error and haven't found exercises that work as well for my pushing muscles: with the equipment I have I've only found exercises more suited to higher reps/conditioning work (lunges/goblet squats/push-ups).

My question is: how essential is it for me to be working at a high percentage of max on those movements? By neglecting to hit my pushing muscles with heavy weights am I markedly reducing my potential with regards to my goals?

Basically what I'm asking is - would doing a high volume and density of 40kg goblet squats/lunges be adequate for my goals, or should I make the trip to my local gym and hit front squats with heavier weights? It seems that a lot of websites push strength as the most important athletic quality - I'd like to hear your thoughts on this: how important is pure strength?

Thank you for your time.


#2

If you have it, strength is outright fantastic, really, the more the better!
Trouble is, getting pure strength isn’t easy. If you don’t want to add mass, it’ll be a slooow endevour.
And while getting stronger, you need to maintain your fighting technique and general conditioning.
So now we’re approaching the usual madness of a fighter’s schedule.

I don’t know your age, but I say hit the gym for one or two heavy training cycles. You can always kettle away later.
40 kg goblets, while nothing to sneeze at, are more of a conditioning tool.
If you have a barbell with bodyweight weights, I’d go for one legged Zercher squats over the Goblet as well as Clean and Presses.

Kettlebells are still the rage but all the guys who rave about them built their strength and mass without the bell.
I like them and they might be really good for maintainance and certain types of stability work and whatnot.
But you sound a bit like you’d still get some good gains out of basic programs (correct me if I’m wrong).
Squats, Deads, Presses, Bench, these are really good to make quick strength gains if you’re new to those exercises.

Happy training!


#3

Strength is one of the universal advantages in Combat along with speed, stamina, reach, durability, and precision/coordination/accuracy. If you have greater levels of it, you have an advantage over those with lesser levels of it. That doesn’t mean it cannot be neutralized or will always spell victory of course, but it’s an advantage nonetheless.

How much time an energy you the individual spend on developing strength is going to depend on you the individual and your past performance in your chosen arena of application. If you were getting rag dolled while sparring (be that striking, grappling, free-fighting, etc…), then spending some time and energy on strength training would probably be a good use of your time and energy. If you were gassing out and no matter how hard you tried you were unscussessful in your sparring, then you probably need to work on your stamina and precision/technique more than your strength. If you feel like you are moving in slow motion, then you might be better off working on your speed and precision/strength.

Regarding self defense, greater size will generally lead to a lesser likelihood of you being targeted as a victim, so there is an intimidation factor/deterrent involved with being bigger. Being bigger also often means that you will be capable of sustaining greater damage, though not always. But even then, if someone really wants to hurt you they will just employ weapons or superior numbers to tip the odds against you. You also may not be able to reach a truly intimidating size, so it may not be worth the time and effort you would have to put into it. You also pretty much lose the element of surprise once you reach a certain size, which means people will be constantly on guard should they target you.

Regarding actual training, all those exercises that Schwartz mentioned are great basic strength exercises, but there are more than one way to Rome. You can develop a lot of relative strength using only your bodyweight, another person’s resistance, or environmental resistance implements like rocks, logs, water jugs, sandbags, etc… These types of strength training are a little less straight forward than traditional strength training in terms of progression though, so if it’s easier for you to just go to the gym, then go for it.


#4

Thanks a lot for the replies guys!

In terms of a bit more background about myself: I’m 23, 6’2" and a fairly lean 215lbs. I trained traditionally with barbell movements from the age of 17-22 before making the switch to kettlebells, so I do have that background and base strength (although I was never strong by T-Nation standards). Barbell training took me to 235lbs but I wasn’t moving very well, and since switching to kettlebells I’ve dropped to 215lbs and I move much better and I feel my body works better as a unit.

I would say that of the aspects you listed sentoguy, my stronger points are strength, speed and reach while my weakest areas are definitely conditioning and technique. I wouldn’t say I’ve ever been completely ragdolled, although I have been soundly beaten by guys similarly sized to myself with superior technique (unsurprisingly). While strength isn’t a glaring weak-point in my training, and I should be focusing more on conditioning, I would like to make sure I’m not leaving myself any desperate weaknesses.

In terms of training I base my training around upper push, upper pull, hinge and squatting movements to keep myself balanced, but like I said before I feel like I’m not hitting my upper push and squat movements as well as my upper pull and hinge movements.


#5

My personal experience is that you need a minimum amount of strength to be able to actually do anything that involves the human body properly.

That minimum strength, imo, is basically a bw bench/1.5xbw squat/ 2xbw deadlift. Once you got those any additional strength is valuable, but not absolutely necessary.

All aspects of my judo improved as I got stronger. Hell, all aspects of my life improved as I got stronger. The point is though, I’m incredibly weak when compared to the powerlifting standard, and as I slowly get out of said “incredibly weak” territory, the more my physical ability improves.

So, the way I see it, people are viewing this entire “is strength relevant to martial arts/physical activity?” question in the wrong way. You don’t need to be squatting 2x your bw or anything, and there probably won’t be a significant difference in your performance between you squatting 1.5xbw and 2xbw. There will be, however, a huge difference if you go from barely squatting your bw to squatting your bw confidently. Because you actually reached the strength level required to perform certain athletic movements.

In other words… stop using the powerlifting standard as the pedestal. It’s irrelevant to anything besides powerlifting. I think people are using the wrong strength standards, and so people get into this messed up debate that shouldn’t even exist in the first place. (This is a general statement, and not directed towards you Furo)


#6

^^ Nice post from magick

What follows is a bit of a rant:

People here lose sight of what constitutes strong/big, because they get caught up in the powerlifting/strongman strength standards that very few people outside the internet/Tnation are capable of. This is in no way a dig at the guys in other forums here. Some of the strength these guys are able to display is awe-inspiring.

Trying to hold yourself to those standards is futile though, unless you are extremely genetically gifted, it would be pointless judging yourself by those measures. For example, I used to do construction with a bloke who was my height, 6’1, and 17 stone (238lbs), with visible abs. This guy had been to the gym once in 10 months, never taken a steroid, and lives off pies, cereal and jam sandwiches.

He could also walk into the gym on any given day and squat, deadlift, bench etc more than I ever could, with the best diet and training plan, and 10 years hard training under my belt. A guy like that, with the right training an diet, could start getting towards some of the big numbers we see here on Tnation. Unless you have those genes though, you need to appreciate that some humans are just built for moving massive amounts of weight through certain paths of motion.

That is not to say normal people are wasting their time getting bigger and stronger, and that it isn’t possible to be big and strong even without stellar genetics for it. This is particularly true of all those training for self-defense/survival purposes. Despite everything in the preceding paragraph, self-defense/fighting outside of a sporting context does seem to be a great equaliser. As Sento rightly pointed out, bigger and stronger gives you the means to endure more (by and large) and possibly apply more force. That said, the strength displayed in a powerlifting meet, and the strength required to restrain/pacify even a 160lb man of average height who has no intention of being held, are two very different things. Outside of a very controlled environment, where weight is moved through a few very fixed ranges of motion, the variables increase exponentially.

All of the above is a rather convoluted way of saying that strength standards, whilst not totally redundant, have to be taken with a pinch of salt, and viewed within the context they were intended to be applied. You’ll read all over this site that if you’re over 6’ an under 200lbs, your a malnourished, untrained weakling who needs to spend 2 years bulking and doing a prescribed set of lifts before you become big enough to be called a man. The reality though, in my experience, is rather different. Whilst strength is important, the type of strength you develop, how you apply it, and, crucially, the duration for which you are able to apply it, are all more important, in my opinion, than absolute strength.

For self-defence/warrior/fight type strength, I personally believe lower weights with odd objects are far more beneficial than developing high degrees of linear strength through typical barbell training. With that said, I also believe partials are invaluable. I’m not against a base level of strength and mass being developed through barbells, and I use them myself. If you want to develop fighting strength, a lot more time needs to be devoted to the less aesthetic muscles and tendons - grip, neck, core, hips and arse. On top of this, it’s essential to have a very high degree of conditioning. Conditioning really is king when it comes to fighting. Limit strength is great, but if it’s all you’ve got, you really need to close things out in the first few seconds if you’re going to win. By contrast, if you have a high base of CV fitness, you are able to endure and apply your strength more consistently over a longer period. To illustrate, I helped work a door one night, and due to my naivety, ended up having to subdue a very big, very pissed off customer by myself. I was nowhere near as heavy or as strong as him, but I was big enough, and strong enough, to hold on and force him to apply his strength from a disadvantaged position. When he wasn’t able to shake me off, and had thrashed around for probably less than 30 seconds, he literally quit and asked for mercy because he was breathing so heavily he must have been close to a heart attack. This story isn’t meant as a brag - fighting a very large, extremely well conditioned man is not a prospect I relish, but it does serve to illustrate that strength in the gym on a few key lifts doesn’t necessarily translate to being a stone cold killer in a scrap (not saying I am personally).

Essentially the takeaways are:

  • Strength is good, mass is good, both should be trained for if you don’t have a weightclass to make. However, when it comes to fighting, most people will get more out of a sandbag get up than they will a bench press. And someone who can still do SB get ups for reps with a 100lb sand bag at the end of a long conditioning session is, to me, a scarier prospect than someone who can warm up to a big number in a barbell squat/bench etc, even if they don’t have such pretty muscles, and even if they weigh less than 200lbs.

  • Be fit enough to make your strength count. There will always be someone bigger and stronger. If that person has no engine, then you only need enough strength to endure to the point that the strength they are able to exhibit drops below the strength you are still able to apply. Being fit also let’s you take a better shot - look at any extremely well conditioned fighter (eg B-Hop), and look at how few knockdowns they’ll have on their record.

  • Skill is awesome, and reigns supreme, whilst at the same time, to my mind, being the icing on the cake. When there are no rules and no refs, I’d sure as hell like to be big enough and fit enough for skill to be a luxury. If skill is all you’ve got, you can still be overwhelmed by a vast disparity in size and ability to usefully apply strength. In my opinion, small increases in strength and size can have a significant effect on this disparity.


#7

Thanks for your input magick! I completely agree with your idea of a minimum threshold of strength being of huge importance, and further increases in strength having diminishing returns beyond that. I’m pretty confident I could hit the standards you have listed with a few weeks of barbell practice (I haven’t performed any of those lifts in years). As such, do you think maintaining my current level of strength is adequate for my goals? I certainly wouldn’t classify myself as strong, but I wouldn’t say I was weak either.


#8

I really recommend getting a heavier kettlebell - getting the 88lber really transformed my training in my opinion. When I first got it I was worried I gone too heavy, but you very quickly get used to it and it really provides a better training stimulus. I think my biggest problem with it was just confidence and grip (like jblues my one is very slippery lol) but practice and some liquid chalk solved those problems. I think a mixture of lighter KB conditioning work and heavier KB strength work is a winning combination (not that I can be bothered with much conditioning work myself lol).

I’d highly recommend getting one around 88lbs - you’re definitely strong enough to handle it and it will be a nice jump from your current kettlebells.


#9

Thank you very much for the advice Londonboxer, I really appreciate it. Your comments seem to fit in with my current strength training routine, although I definitely need to put in some conditioning work. I would very much need to win in the first few seconds as you put it lol. On that note what do you personally find best for conditioning? Sport specific stuff like sparring or cardio interval type training?

I have certainly noticed a big difference in my real-world strength from switching from barbell to kettlebell work. I recently did some muay thai after a long time away from combat sports focusing on heavy KB work, and I was really surprised by how much stronger I felt in the clinch. I personally think that the heavy one-arm swing is the ultimate “functional” exercise - it really hits your grip, ass, hips and core like nothing else I’ve done, and I think it has done wonders for my athletic performance.

Thanks a lot for your input man!


#10

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
^^ Nice post from magick

What follows is a bit of a rant:

People here lose sight of what constitutes strong/big, because they get caught up in the powerlifting/strongman strength standards that very few people outside the internet/Tnation are capable of. This is in no way a dig at the guys in other forums here. Some of the strength these guys are able to display is awe-inspiring.

Trying to hold yourself to those standards is futile though, unless you are extremely genetically gifted, it would be pointless judging yourself by those measures. For example, I used to do construction with a bloke who was my height, 6’1, and 17 stone (238lbs), with visible abs. This guy had been to the gym once in 10 months, never taken a steroid, and lives off pies, cereal and jam sandwiches.

He could also walk into the gym on any given day and squat, deadlift, bench etc more than I ever could, with the best diet and training plan, and 10 years hard training under my belt. A guy like that, with the right training an diet, could start getting towards some of the big numbers we see here on Tnation. Unless you have those genes though, you need to appreciate that some humans are just built for moving massive amounts of weight through certain paths of motion.

That is not to say normal people are wasting their time getting bigger and stronger, and that it isn’t possible to be big and strong even without stellar genetics for it. This is particularly true of all those training for self-defense/survival purposes. Despite everything in the preceding paragraph, self-defense/fighting outside of a sporting context does seem to be a great equaliser. As Sento rightly pointed out, bigger and stronger gives you the means to endure more (by and large) and possibly apply more force. That said, the strength displayed in a powerlifting meet, and the strength required to restrain/pacify even a 160lb man of average height who has no intention of being held, are two very different things. Outside of a very controlled environment, where weight is moved through a few very fixed ranges of motion, the variables increase exponentially.

All of the above is a rather convoluted way of saying that strength standards, whilst not totally redundant, have to be taken with a pinch of salt, and viewed within the context they were intended to be applied. You’ll read all over this site that if you’re over 6’ an under 200lbs, your a malnourished, untrained weakling who needs to spend 2 years bulking and doing a prescribed set of lifts before you become big enough to be called a man. The reality though, in my experience, is rather different. Whilst strength is important, the type of strength you develop, how you apply it, and, crucially, the duration for which you are able to apply it, are all more important, in my opinion, than absolute strength.

For self-defence/warrior/fight type strength, I personally believe lower weights with odd objects are far more beneficial than developing high degrees of linear strength through typical barbell training. With that said, I also believe partials are invaluable. I’m not against a base level of strength and mass being developed through barbells, and I use them myself. If you want to develop fighting strength, a lot more time needs to be devoted to the less aesthetic muscles and tendons - grip, neck, core, hips and arse. On top of this, it’s essential to have a very high degree of conditioning. Conditioning really is king when it comes to fighting. Limit strength is great, but if it’s all you’ve got, you really need to close things out in the first few seconds if you’re going to win. By contrast, if you have a high base of CV fitness, you are able to endure and apply your strength more consistently over a longer period. To illustrate, I helped work a door one night, and due to my naivety, ended up having to subdue a very big, very pissed off customer by myself. I was nowhere near as heavy or as strong as him, but I was big enough, and strong enough, to hold on and force him to apply his strength from a disadvantaged position. When he wasn’t able to shake me off, and had thrashed around for probably less than 30 seconds, he literally quit and asked for mercy because he was breathing so heavily he must have been close to a heart attack. This story isn’t meant as a brag - fighting a very large, extremely well conditioned man is not a prospect I relish, but it does serve to illustrate that strength in the gym on a few key lifts doesn’t necessarily translate to being a stone cold killer in a scrap (not saying I am personally).

Essentially the takeaways are:

  • Strength is good, mass is good, both should be trained for if you don’t have a weightclass to make. However, when it comes to fighting, most people will get more out of a sandbag get up than they will a bench press. And someone who can still do SB get ups for reps with a 100lb sand bag at the end of a long conditioning session is, to me, a scarier prospect than someone who can warm up to a big number in a barbell squat/bench etc, even if they don’t have such pretty muscles, and even if they weigh less than 200lbs.

  • Be fit enough to make your strength count. There will always be someone bigger and stronger. If that person has no engine, then you only need enough strength to endure to the point that the strength they are able to exhibit drops below the strength you are still able to apply. Being fit also let’s you take a better shot - look at any extremely well conditioned fighter (eg B-Hop), and look at how few knockdowns they’ll have on their record.

  • Skill is awesome, and reigns supreme, whilst at the same time, to my mind, being the icing on the cake. When there are no rules and no refs, I’d sure as hell like to be big enough and fit enough for skill to be a luxury. If skill is all you’ve got, you can still be overwhelmed by a vast disparity in size and ability to usefully apply strength. In my opinion, small increases in strength and size can have a significant effect on this disparity.

[/quote]

LondonBoxer,
Really good post, well written and insightful. Furo: LB,Sento, and Magick nailed this one. I am, by no means, a S&C expert, but, I do know this from experience from working the street. If a “fight” or someone actively resisting you, goes past ONE minute, you are in trouble and your conditioning will be the extremely important. You gas on the street and you end up badly beaten or dead. So, IMHO: Skill, Conditioning, then Strength.


#11

[quote]furo wrote:
Thank you very much for the advice Londonboxer, I really appreciate it. Your comments seem to fit in with my current strength training routine, although I definitely need to put in some conditioning work. I would very much need to win in the first few seconds as you put it lol. On that note what do you personally find best for conditioning? Sport specific stuff like sparring or cardio interval type training?

I have certainly noticed a big difference in my real-world strength from switching from barbell to kettlebell work. I recently did some muay thai after a long time away from combat sports focusing on heavy KB work, and I was really surprised by how much stronger I felt in the clinch. I personally think that the heavy one-arm swing is the ultimate “functional” exercise - it really hits your grip, ass, hips and core like nothing else I’ve done, and I think it has done wonders for my athletic performance.

Thanks a lot for your input man![/quote]

Thanks to Idaho for the kind words - I’m always worried I’m rambling once I start writing longer posts.

Furo - to address your question, I think it is important to address all types of conditioning if you are to be the most effective warrior you can be. I don’t think it is easy to do this if you focus on your training in week long blocks, as there are a lot of different types of conditioning that are complimentary that need to be considered.

Before I go into detail I should give the disclaimer that I have no qualifications, no experience of being coached by an s&c coach etc. This is purely my opinion from a few years in the game, and there are many people in this forum, and on the board more generally who could give you more scientific advice. Much of what I know and have found to be effective comes from reading people far more expert than me on the internet.

All that said:

  • My training tends to revolve around 6 days of training in a week.

  • 3 days involve strength training, all 6 days involve conditioning.

  • Strength training for me tends to focus on movement patterns rather than muscle groups, so I only ever work: squat, overhead press, pullup, row, deadlift, swing, and sandbag getup in some form or another. I am a big believer in heavy partials for people training to fight. I find they strengthen the ligaments and tendons, and all the sinewy goodness that makes you usefully strong, able to transfer power, and injury resistant. I also use odd objects a lot, and heavy singles, as I can gain strength whilst still being fresh for intense conditioning.

  • As far as structuring conditioning goes, I think it is important to address all types of conditioning if you want to be a capable fighter. That means training for all out explosive effort over 30-60 seconds. Training for ‘intermediate’ conditioning - the ability to work very hard, only slightly sub maximally, for 3-5 minutes, and recover quickly. And training for prolonged effort at a high work rate.

  • Whilst you can train the types of conditioning above once a week, and quickly reach a base level of fitness, it’s the sort of fitness that will desert you pretty quickly in a high stress/unfamiliar demanding situation. For conditioning to be useful, beyond general personal health, it needs to be trained hard until a high level of fitness is reached.

How I incorporate it:

  • After a strength training session, I will do a short, 20 mins or so, conditioning session. Here I obviously tend to target the all out effort and 3-5 minute near max effort types of conditioning. Some days I’ll set a clock for 20 minutes and shoot for 1000 repetitions of whatever exercises I want (pushups, swings, bw rows, pullups, burpees, jumping lunges, bw squats etc), or I’ll work the heavy bag at a high tempo for 5-6 rounds, or do punch out drills (30 seconds on, 30 seconds off) for ten minutes and then set a timer for 10 minutes and shoot for 500bw squats etc.

  • The days I don’t train strength are obviously dedicated to conditioning. I’ll usually do a sandbag drag sprint day (harness and a 100lb sandbag dragging behind, 8 x 100m etc), a ruck day (40-50lbs in a backpack, and shoot for 1 hour on the go over rough terrain), and a long distance day, where I’ll shoot for 5 - 10 miles at as close to a 7 minute mile pace as I can manage (again, over rough terrain, in boots).

Hopefully that’s a useful explanation of how I go about things. Again, I don’t claim any expertise, and it’s quite possible the above could be improved upon considerably. You could also swap out some of the conditioning days for sport specific training, sparring etc.


#12

the dicussion is going along nicely, let me add a few things:

This is spot on and, while probably not directly pointing at the OP, needs to be repeated because…

  1. lots of MA students simply are not engaging their weaknesses directly enough; even advanced trainees often neglect that advice!
  2. Strength is actually one of the easiest parametres to address directly, at least to a certain level- technique is fickle, on the other hand!
    Maybe you learn a new twist or technique or sharpen out some flaws with your jab, but after competing you realize it doesn’t work with your style.
    Or the technique was garbage after all, trainers are often not super competent.
    Or, when the adrenaline is punping, you cannot tap into the proper form.

etcetc, bottomline is, strength can and should be assessed fairly objectivly and usually improved, to a reasonable level

[quote]
You can develop a lot of relative strength using only your bodyweight, another person’s resistance, or environmental resistance implements like rocks, logs, water jugs, sandbags, etc… [/quote]
I love callisthenics, but it’s more difficult (for a lot of reasons) to gain strength that way, especially if someone’s a muscularly untalented and/or a lanky guy.
That said, the exercise that probably had the best direct benefit to my punching was the one-arm pushup (not sold on pistols).

[quote]
You don’t need to be squatting 2x your bw or anything, and there probably won’t be a significant difference in your performance between you squatting 1.5xbw and 2xbw. There will be, however, a huge difference if you go from barely squatting your bw to squatting your bw confidently
Very true, also and not excluding Londonboxer’s advice:
quote] … stop using the powerlifting standard as the pedestal. It’s irrelevant to anything besides powerlifting.[/quote]

Especially overusing the bench press WILL lead to damaging your structure (ie injuries) and mobility. Being musclebound is often refered to here as a myth from the bros, but in terms of martial arts it is a very factual, tangible cluster of maladies.

A long time ago, a friend from Hapikido class had a street fight and won.
Why?
Because they initially scrambled to the pavement, and he stood up much faster then the other guy -thanks to Ukemi! (the rest was short, onesided and ugly)
Something he never loved or payed much attention to up until that moment saved his pretty face a beating.

Well, what do YOU think?
If you know you could improve some key lifts from the following list without much complication by a decent margin, I say you should try.
If you can say that newbie and advanced strength gains time is over and now it’ll be a battle of 5lbs weight jumps, I say don’t bother.

[all done for 1-5rep max: Deadlift, Rack Pulls; Squat, Front Squat, Zercher; Strict Press, normal Bench Press, Dips, Incline Bench Press; Weighted Pull/Chins, Heavy Rows; Snatch, Clean]

I shall also add that heavy KB conditioning after training carries a huge risk of compounding injury.
In my opinion, this is regularly overlooked by enthusiasts.
I recommend doing it seperately or with a weight you can comfortably control.

Keep fighting!


#13

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I love callisthenics, but it’s more difficult (for a lot of reasons) to gain strength that way, especially if someone’s a muscularly untalented and/or a lanky guy.
That said, the exercise that probably had the best direct benefit to my punching was the one-arm pushup (not sold on pistols).

[/quote]

I agree, the knowledge and information required to build substantial strength with Bodyweight exercise is less common and harder to come by, especially for those not genetically predisposed to relative strength. With the right knowledge and information though it is entirely possible and one can become very strong training this way (both the big prime movers and smaller stabilizers). If one doesn’t have access to such knowledge though, then again I agree that traditional resistance training is more straight forward.


#14

Nothing is going to get you as strong as lifting heavy as shit as often as possible. The only problem is when will you be strong and for how long and in what positions. If you are pressing, squatting… at 75%+ your max weight your body may not be fully recovered for 2 weeks, even if you feel ok. This is where high rep lighter work comes into play, because it allows you to build some strength and keep blood flowing. You very well may feel stronger with your one arm swing because your body is more rested and more available to go. If your sparring and fighting often the gym may just be bad for you all together, but if not learning to cycle your routines can make your peaks higher. That’s why most sports have season.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is you it all boils down to your goal, the more specific your goal is the better you can train for it.

You also vastly overlooked nutrition. Sport fighting requires weight classes where it may be harder to gain large amounts of strength while still recovering. If you aren’t in sports you may be able to get back up to 235 and leave you self with enough conditioning to match your strength, if your eating enough and right.


#15

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Nothing is going to get you as strong as lifting heavy as shit as often as possible. The only problem is when will you be strong and for how long and in what positions. If you are pressing, squatting… at 75%+ your max weight your body may not be fully recovered for 2 weeks, even if you feel ok. This is where high rep lighter work comes into play, because it allows you to build some strength and keep blood flowing. You very well may feel stronger with your one arm swing because your body is more rested and more available to go. If your sparring and fighting often the gym may just be bad for you all together, but if not learning to cycle your routines can make your peaks higher. That’s why most sports have season.
[/quote]

Great point.

I feel like I’ve gotten stronger since I’ve begun relying more on bodyweight exercises for my assistance work - hitting 5 x 10 pullups or dips after doing my main lift. But that might be exactly what you’re talking about; I’m not continually killing myself after the main sets, and it’s letting me recover a little more.

I also do pushup/situps to some degree every day, and once accustomed, I find that this doesn’t affect my boxing.

And that’s the thing with boxing or grappling or whatever - there is really no “season.” You take fights when they’re there, and it could be that you find out five weeks or out or the day before. Really, the only thing you “know” that you’re going to participate in would be the big tourneys like the Golden Gloves, but even then, the schedule can be erratic. Very hard to plan workouts when you have to compete like that.

I lift differently than my coach has his amateur fighters lift, though - he does much more high-rep, endurance stuff, and rarely goes near one/three/five rep maxes.


#16

Your goals are silly. Your a doomsday prepper right? The only cool thing about doomsday preppers is all the guns.

Turkish Get ups are good for the pushing muscles.


#17

Lol I’m definitely not a doomsday prepper and I don’t have any guns. Just training to be good at life like everyone else on this website.

Yeah Turkish Get-Ups are good, I did nothing but one arm swings and Turkish Get-Ups for most of 2014 (Pavel’s Simple and Sinister routine). I’ve gone off them a little recently though.

Thanks a lot to the rest of you!


#18

How did you find the simple but sinister program? What are your thoughts on it? I’m always interested in very basic programs


#19

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
If you are pressing, squatting… at 75%+ your max weight your body may not be fully recovered for 2 weeks, even if you feel ok.[/quote]

what are you talking about


#20

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
How did you find the simple but sinister program? What are your thoughts on it? I’m always interested in very basic programs[/quote]

I really liked it. I ran it for around 8 months and progressed from using a 20kg kettlebell to using a 40kg kettlebell for all sets (though a lot of those were technical, as well as strength improvements). I felt that it really improved my “real life” strength but that is obviously very difficult to quantify. I neglected the conditioning aspect of the routine (which has been a bit of a theme in this thread) and I wasn’t close to achieving the time limits with the 40kg, but the strength was there. I think that someone who could do the Sinister goal (using the 48kg - all swings in 5min and all get-ups in 10min) would be very well conditioned and have great functional strength.

In the end the main reasons I stopped Simple and Sinister were because I got a bit bored with it and because I noticeably lost upper body size. As a GPP routine for a combat sport I think it would be pretty hard to beat, I think it’s pretty awesome.