T Nation

How Important Is Proper Technique?

I listed them earlier. But please–seriously, and with all due respect–don’t concern yourself with them.

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If you don’t re-enumerate them, I might actually have to do work while at work today rather than be entertained by the internet…

One or the other isn’t better, they are just different.

Clean and Jerks are different than dumbbell flies.

Extreme Example
Tom Platz(bodybuilder) had huge legs, he squatted high reps and did all kinds of stuff to slow down, and increase the tension involved in lowering the weights. But he didn’t have the highest 1 rep max squat.

Fred Hatfield (powerlifter) fewer reps, squatted faster. He moved more weight than Platz, but he didn’t have the same leg mass.

What’s your opinion on this applied to training for strictly hypertrophy?

Do you think both fast reps and slow reps have their place? Care to elaborate on which and when?

I’m really getting interested in this topic of rep tempo

I would differ to the real bodybuilders on this one, but; often, strict hypertrophy guys use a moderate execution, for 8-12 reps. Not too fast, not too slow. Not too heavy, not too light. Just Right, for enough time to make muscles grow. Then they use exercise selection (like dumbbells, cables, machine and sometimes barbells) to make this Moderate rep speed, and moderate weight, correct. Special machines, or benches with specific inclines, dumbbells and cables that let you keep tension on the muscles without doing any “crazy” or “special” raising and lowering.

Sport lifters (Powerlifter/weightlifter) mess with rep speed a little. With pauses vs touch and go, or lifts from the hang or lifts from blocks or whatever. Other Sport lifters do seem to use more weight ranges than body builders. Some lower, heavier reps and some lighter, higher reps. The weight on the bar determines the execution. Heavy weights go a little slower than lighter weights naturally, so if you do both you don’t need to worry about tempo.

Track and field athletes have only 1 body, so they cannot change weights. And they have to do their sport, so they have small exercise selection. So they do all sorts of crazy stuff with bounding and bouncing, depth jumps and running against parachutes to mess with their tempo.

But stuff gets crazy. You can bodybuild for mass. Or you can do 2 minute long barbell complexes of Olympic lifts for mass. Or you can do sets of like 100 reps till failure for mass.

I’ve always held that certain variables get overcomplicated in their relevance to achieving optimal results. IMO simplicity is usually the best approach. Can you get results from addressing different approaches (ie. rep ranges)? Sure, and for different reasons. Ideally most trainers will learn about everything, be smart enough to pay attention to what works for them, but never develop a closed mind in the process.

With that said,… while rep cadences where in every article I saw when I first started reading online back in the day (late 90’s),… yep, made me think that this whole weight lifting thing was gonna be a lot of brain work… luckily as I stopped paying attention to such issues and articles, I focused on the basics behind all the crazy programs and articles and everything worked out pretty ok.

S

Exactly!

You can’t argue with a muscular pro body builder about muscles!

At the same time, you can’t tell Ed Coan he did it wrong because he paid special attention and lifted all the weights between 55%-95% for different reps.

And Josh Bryant is also right with super fast reps and incredibly slow isometric reps, because all his dudes bench 600-700 pounds.

More than one way can be good. Art plus Science!

Just lower under control.

Too much intellectual masturbation going in this thread.

Hypertrophy has been achieved, and in copious amounts by thousands of bodybuilders for several DECADES. It is not something that only exists in theory or so rare that we actually need studies to tell us what to do.

To be caught in a dilemma because you read a study(I’m assuming you have actually read the studies quoted in that Butt Boy article instead of just his interpretation of them) which, 1 for example, involves:

  1. Untrained to relatively untrained subjects. 40% female.
  2. Unilateral bicep curls as the only exercise used throughout.
  3. 4-6 second eccentrics.

Instead of simply listening to the advice @EyeDentist has been giving you in your other thread or, I don’t know, maybe even the bloody PRO BODYBUILDERS in this thread would be beyond absurd, don’t you think?

EDIT

I’m really not intending to be an ass here. I think you are pretty intelligent from your posts in this thread but sometimes information overload leads to perspective being lost. Just trying to guide your thought process here.

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Thank you and no, I didn’t perceive the rest of your post as “assholish,” luckily I had already understood your good intent :slight_smile:

I’ll be honest–I love training. Conversely to what some on this forum have said (I remember seeing an user claiming that he likes the results but not really the process), I’ve come to love everything about training and nutrition. So I’ll admit that sometimes I’ll talk about stuff like this just for the sake of discussion about a topic I’m interested in.

I do realize that many variables (namely adherence, nutrition, volume, intensity, and frequency) are far, far more important than others (such as, maybe, rep tempo or even supplementation to some extent), but I do also believe that as long as I’m putting in the actual work, it probably won’t hurt to learn a few new things (although I’ll agree that in the past I experienced cases of paralysis by analysis)

Moreover, I’m 17 and I would like to become a trainer someday, so I’m trying to set myself up by gaining as much knowledge as possible.

Applicability of studies is something I sometimes forget to take into the equation, so thank you for the reality check.

That’s a thought I had too while thinking about all of this stuff.

So thank you again for your post :slight_smile:


On another note, @EyeDentist I would love to hear your thoughts on the last messages I posted on my other topic (which probably passed a bit under that radar since you haven’t replied to it in a few days). As always, thanks for your insights and advice which I’ve been applying and in no way I meant to disregard with my other posts in this topic

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Try out Thib’s “Layers Program.” It’s got all the weird stuff in 1 routine. You can try out a bunch of different executions, and see how they Feel.

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^^^ +1. Layers is tits

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Hmm I just took a look at the article (I think I had already ready it some time ago) and it looks interesting. I’m currently on my fifth week of Chris DBW and I would like go on at least 4 more weeks with it. Then I’ll consider switching to another kind of program.

Two problems that come to my mind about the program though:

  1. I never train bench press movements with a bar. I’m lousy at it and I’m used to using dumbbells. I’m also not very proficient with the high pull. I probably need to take some time to practice these movements.

  2. My gym doesn’t have a power rack so I’m wondering how to apply the first porentiation layer (maybe I could load the bar with a supramaximal load), and it also makes benching a 2RM potentially unsafe. Any solutions?

Also I noticed that the article says the routine is for both strength and size, but a quick look at its topic here on the forum had me realize that there are many templates for this system.

Care to provide/link to one specifically suited for hypertrophy?

This system seems interesting, I’m looking forward to look more into it

You can just do the old school vanilla layers:

Ramp to a 1-3RM

3-5 clusters at 90%

1-3 HDL sets (which are just different kinds of extended sets higher rep sets) at 70%

Take a look through the forums here. Layers are boss. You probably should take a little time to work on the movements though, couldn’t hurt at least.

I looked it up but couldn’t find any relevant results, either here on the forums or on Google.

Care to provide a link?

everything (i think) about layers

Maybe we’re getting ahead of ourselves with the layers.

Just do some pushups. Do some Regular, some with a pause at the bottom, some really bouncey and fast, some super slow and a few plyo metric pushups.

Then, use your imagination! Which pushups could help a bench press? Which pushup style would you use if you had to do as many as possible in a row. Which execution makes you most fatigued with the fewest amount of reps? Can you use the tempo to emphasise how much Tricep or Pec you use?

You’ll figure out what’s real and what is vodoo really fast.

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Ick, so much majoring in the minors in this thread.

R u just mad cos KennyCrox roasted you?

Lmao it’s not the 1St time I’ve been called an idiot and I sure hope it’s not the last time. I just lose interest when the smallest details are given the most time. I’m a basic kind of bloke though…