T Nation

How Important is HCG Really?


#1

I feel the use of hcg being thought of a necessary is kind of a new thing. Yet not sure if I want to spend another near 100$ for hcg-including bac water, shipping and needles+shipping- which will just help me feel little better in pct.

For those who have used it and done cycles without it do you think its really necessary I mean pct is necessary obviously but not sure if feel hcg is necessary but would obviously help some.


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#2

not a necessity but worth it IMHO. 100 bucks huh, find a new source. No you dont need hcg in your cycle that you propsed but its certainly a welcome addition to long multi compound cycles.


#3

I would like to hear more oppinions on this subject to


#4

I never used HCG in my PCT. I use only Clomid + Nolva and I’m OK. :wink:


#5

[quote]HUGE.HULK wrote:
I never used HCG in my PCT. I use only Clomid + Nolva and I’m OK. ;)[/quote]

It’s used on cycle.


#6

HCG is not the same mechanism of action at all as Clomid/Nolva…not even close…so I’m not sure why you are even bringing up the fact that you use those instead of hcg…

HCG maintains the signal to your testicles that mimics the FSH that would otherwise be sent by the HPTA…this has a few benefits:
-Maintains some natural testicular output of testosterone
-Maintains other testicular functions not related to testosterone (pregnenolone production being most important)
-Maintains testicular fullness

The second benefit is probably the most important…for a 12 week cycle, you are essentially shutting down your nuts ability to produce this important hormone. I don’t think repeatedly doing this is a good idea, so I would recommend always using HCG if you are doing a long enough cycle to suppress your HPTA.


#7

I recommend it while coming off Deca to reboot the feedback loop before starting PCT but thats about it.

I dont recommend it on cycle as you are already shut down for the most part and using HCG for a prolonged period of time can lead to prolonged shutdown of natural HCG.

But I would like to hear more from VT, esspecially since I am planning a fairly long cycle (including Deca) which his knowledge maybe very useful.

What sort of amounts of HCG program would you recommend for longer cycles?


#8

HCG imo isnt important,not in the sense of if you do not have it bad things will happen.

It does make things a little more comfortable if uses properly though. so its really a personal preference.

Myself i like the minimalist approach,I like to have as few types of drugs as possible so I can keep a closer eye on things.
so with that said I have never used HCG,on cycle or during pct, only time I Have used it was to see what it was like.


#9

[quote]lytw8 wrote:
I dont recommend it on cycle as you are already shut down for the most part and using HCG for a prolonged period of time can lead to prolonged shutdown of natural HCG.[/quote]

Its true that you’re shutdown on cycle, but HCG will maintain SOME natural (for lack of better word) testicular output of testosterone. But as I mentioned above, I think the real important output that you are shutting down on cycle (and preserving with hcg) is testicular pregnenolone. This is basically the “root hormone” of all your progestagens, androgens, glucocorticoids, and mineralcorticoids…it is the first hormone synthesized from cholesterol and a lot of the life extension folks think is the root cause of high cholesterol (which is identified as a side effect of steroid use).

Keep in mind, all my AAS knowledges comes from extrapolation from an HRT context–so basically I’m talking about low dose, lifetime cycles lol. But for a 12 week AAS cycle, I still can’t see shutting down preg as a good thing, personally. And since HCG is so cheap, I don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t want to include it in your cycle.

[quote]
What sort of amounts of HCG program would you recommend for longer cycles?[/quote]

I would recommend HRT doses. Keep in mind we’re not trying to drive higher output than normal here–just maintain what we can. I think 250 iu 2-3x per week will be sufficient. Just do it at the same time you do your other shots.


#10

[quote]shizen wrote:
I feel the use of hcg being thought of a necessary is kind of a new thing. Yet not sure if I want to spend another near 100$ for hcg-including bac water, shipping and needles+shipping- which will just help me feel little better in pct.

For those who have used it and done cycles without it do you think its really necessary I mean pct is necessary obviously but not sure if feel hcg is necessary but would obviously help some. [/quote]

Paying for bacteriostatic water and needles? Im guessing you pay for your syringes too? Fuck, I feel sorry for you Americans.


#11

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]shizen wrote:
I feel the use of hcg being thought of a necessary is kind of a new thing. Yet not sure if I want to spend another near 100$ for hcg-including bac water, shipping and needles+shipping- which will just help me feel little better in pct.

For those who have used it and done cycles without it do you think its really necessary I mean pct is necessary obviously but not sure if feel hcg is necessary but would obviously help some. [/quote]

Paying for bacteriostatic water and needles? Im guessing you pay for your syringes too? Fuck, I feel sorry for you Americans. [/quote]

whats worse is have to get it all online also since you need script for all of them also

guessing your canadian? I think you guys can get it all free from clinic.


#12

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]shizen wrote:
I feel the use of hcg being thought of a necessary is kind of a new thing. Yet not sure if I want to spend another near 100$ for hcg-including bac water, shipping and needles+shipping- which will just help me feel little better in pct.

For those who have used it and done cycles without it do you think its really necessary I mean pct is necessary obviously but not sure if feel hcg is necessary but would obviously help some. [/quote]

Paying for bacteriostatic water and needles? Im guessing you pay for your syringes too? Fuck, I feel sorry for you Americans. [/quote]

you feel sorry for americans … lol thats a first.


#13

[quote]shizen wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]shizen wrote:
I feel the use of hcg being thought of a necessary is kind of a new thing. Yet not sure if I want to spend another near 100$ for hcg-including bac water, shipping and needles+shipping- which will just help me feel little better in pct.

For those who have used it and done cycles without it do you think its really necessary I mean pct is necessary obviously but not sure if feel hcg is necessary but would obviously help some. [/quote]

Paying for bacteriostatic water and needles? Im guessing you pay for your syringes too? Fuck, I feel sorry for you Americans. [/quote]

whats worse is have to get it all online also since you need script for all of them also

guessing your canadian? I think you guys can get it all free from clinic. [/quote]

Nope from UK. We have anonymous walk-in clinics where you get everything you need. The nurses even offer to jab you to practise safe injecting. Its like a child going to disneyland I tell you!


#14

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

Nope from UK. We have anonymous walk-in clinics where you get everything you need. The nurses even offer to jab you to practise safe injecting. Its like a child going to disneyland I tell you![/quote]

I think those types of clinics exist in some of our hippie-dippie states on the west coast…not sure if you get injected, but you can swap out your needles…its mostly for people doing heroin, but hey, a needle is a needle!


#15

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

Nope from UK. We have anonymous walk-in clinics where you get everything you need. The nurses even offer to jab you to practise safe injecting. Its like a child going to disneyland I tell you![/quote]

I think those types of clinics exist in some of our hippie-dippie states on the west coast…not sure if you get injected, but you can swap out your needles…its mostly for people doing heroin, but hey, a needle is a needle![/quote]
I would rather buy my own,100 of them is only a few dollars and you can store them and have them ready, you dont have to go anywhere,wait in line and ask anyone for anything, you just grab a pin and go to the shower so convenient


#16

[quote]MaddyD wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

Nope from UK. We have anonymous walk-in clinics where you get everything you need. The nurses even offer to jab you to practise safe injecting. Its like a child going to disneyland I tell you![/quote]

I think those types of clinics exist in some of our hippie-dippie states on the west coast…not sure if you get injected, but you can swap out your needles…its mostly for people doing heroin, but hey, a needle is a needle![/quote]
I would rather buy my own,100 of them is only a few dollars and you can store them and have them ready, you dont have to go anywhere,wait in line and ask anyone for anything, you just grab a pin and go to the shower so convenient [/quote]

No no you dont have to go to the clinic for every jab. They give a black bag and you take as many syringes and needles as you want. Ive taken a years worth :wink: so yeah its convenient. And as VT said, they are mainly for heroin users to prevent sharing of needles and spread of HIV.


#17

Where are you from singh? I get mine off the internet. Never heard of a walk in clinic. I’m in south London


#18

[quote]rugggby wrote:
Where are you from singh? I get mine off the internet. Never heard of a walk in clinic. I’m in south London[/quote]

Im from London too. NHS has many clinics around UK, 100% there will be one near you mate! They are called “Needle exchange clinics” formally, google that. I just googled it and found one in Southwark, anywhere near you I dont know. It saves ALOT of hassle, and you know what you get is 100% sterile otherwise NHS will be getting a law suit :wink:


#19

Cheers mate, nearest one is croydon.

how does it work? Name address… do you have to say what they are for etc?


#20

[quote]rugggby wrote:
Cheers mate, nearest one is croydon.

how does it work? Name address… do you have to say what they are for etc?[/quote]

Yeah ok Croydon, fair enough. They will ask you for your name what you are there for. So say “Joe Bloggs, needle exchange”. They will then seat you, wait for nurse to come down.
He/she will take you into this private room, there you will boxes upon boxes of syringes and needles, you take what you need. They will ask you what its for too, they dont check ID so you can say some crap if you dont wanna give name :slight_smile:
Depending on who you get, you will also get a lecture how steroids are bad etc etc.