T Nation

How Does This Plan Look?


#1

hey, i just wanted your quick opinion of how this looks like. lower body still not fully recovered, so im just asking about upper body training.

Sunday

Press 5'sPRO
V-Grip Chins 5x10
Press 5x10BBB
Fatbar Curl 5x10
DBlateral/rear raise SS 3x10

Wednesday
Bench5'sPRO
Chins 5x10
Dips 5x10
T-Bar chest supp. row 5x10
Rope Pushdowns/ Rope Facepulls each 100 reps

should i add in more bench volume, for example by pyramiding down? or would i get better results by doing the classic bench 5x10 BBB instead of dips?


#2

Just two questions…

why?

What page did you see this in the book?


#3

5/3/1 for powerlifting offseason for mass that’ts where the small assistance comes from… and supplemental is boring but big and jim said recently that he runs it now with 5’s progression. chins/rows/FBcurls are supersetted with main/supplemental work.


#4

and for the first question - i wanna gain more size and strength :slight_smile:


#5

One last question.

Why are you combining templates instead of following one?


#6

[quote]JFG wrote:
One last question.

Why are you combining templates instead of following one?[/quote]

He’s doing the fives progression with four assistance exercises. He wants to get bigger.
Why the 20 questions? It seems pretty basic to me.


#7

[quote]ripped_vik wrote:
should i add in more bench volume, for example by pyramiding down? or would i get better results by doing the classic bench 5x10 BBB instead of dips?[/quote]

If you wanted to get better at bench pressing, or if dips ended up being a little funky on your shoulders, give it a go. But, if general size is your main goal, and your body can handle them, weighted dips are the shit.


#8

I don’t know how experienced you are, but I’ll share my general philosophy with you and you can take what you want from it.

Just like Mr. Wendler’s progression starts light and builds over time, so should exercise selection. If you start with too much you have a higher probability of crashing. If you start with too little there is NO chance of crashing. Over the course of time you can add a little more and see how you handle it. To find YOUR optimal amount, you start at the bottom and work up, not from the top working down.

Something like:
Bench 5’s Pro
Bench FSL 3x5
Rows 5x10

If all goes well for a couple of cycles then add a little more to it and see how you handle it. Just my two cents worth.


#9

[quote]stayaggro666 wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
One last question.

Why are you combining templates instead of following one?[/quote]

He’s doing the fives progression with four assistance exercises. He wants to get bigger.
Why the 20 questions? It seems pretty basic to me.
[/quote]

I didn’t ask 20 questions, I asked 3.

It is to learn. Why else do you ask questions?

I do not have the powerlifter book (2nd Edition and Beyond only). Was wondering why the incorporation of BBB. The program seemed “weird” to me, hence the clarification.


#10

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]stayaggro666 wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
One last question.

Why are you combining templates instead of following one?[/quote]

He’s doing the fives progression with four assistance exercises. He wants to get bigger.
Why the 20 questions? It seems pretty basic to me.
[/quote]

I didn’t ask 20 questions, I asked 3.

It is to learn. Why else do you ask questions?

I do not have the powerlifter book (2nd Edition and Beyond only). Was wondering why the incorporation of BBB. The program seemed “weird” to me, hence the clarification.[/quote]

I was crabby in the morning, and didn’t take into account that typed, as opposed to spoken, communication has no emotion behind it. I apologize for being a dick.


#11

[quote]ripped_vik wrote:
hey, i just wanted your quick opinion of how this looks like. lower body still not fully recovered, so im just asking about upper body training.

Sunday

Press 5’sPRO
V-Grip Chins 5x10
Press 5x10BBB
Fatbar Curl 5x10
DBlateral/rear raise SS 3x10

Wednesday
Bench5’sPRO
Chins 5x10
Dips 5x10
T-Bar chest supp. row 5x10
Rope Pushdowns/ Rope Facepulls each 100 reps

should i add in more bench volume, for example by pyramiding down? or would i get better results by doing the classic bench 5x10 BBB instead of dips?[/quote]

Ditch the dips as they are assistance, not supplemental. The program is OK other than that, but this is something we’d only do for 3-6 weeks - and part of a bigger picture.

I don’t know what you mean by “Lower body is not recovered” but it’s hard to really see the program without seeing ALL you are doing. This is two days out of seven. What you do on the other days is just as important.


#12

Hey, thank you for your answers. Jim, what i mean by that is, that i had a cyst in my right tibia that was causing so much pain i could not train for almost 4 months. 3 weeks ago the pain almost vanished, the MRI i got this week shows that it is almost gone.

I use the 5/3 progression and now am currently in the 4th cycle. My plan looked like this for the last cycle since im training lower body again:

Sunday
Press 5’s Pro (supersetted 5x10 v grip chins)
Press5x10 BBB
Fatbar Curl 5x10
Lateral/Rear delt raise 3x10

Monday
Deadlift 5’s Pro
Leg Curl
Bulgarian split squat
Ab wheel

Wednesday
Bench 5’sPro (supersetted with 5x10 chins)
Bench BBB
T-Bar chest supported row 5x10
Facepulls/Pushdowns 100 reps

Thursday or Friday
Squat 5’s Pro
Leg press
45°Back Raise
Hanging leg raise

I’m using ridiculously low TMs on the Squat (80 kg) and Deadlift (100kg).
The lower body assistance is done for 10 - 20 reps, very low weight too AND on the first workout for 1 set each, next week 2 sets each and so on until i reach 5 sets. Then i would be basically doing Dave Tate’s Periodization Bible from 2nd Edition.

Im getting really good results with this kind of upper body training, should i nonetheless switch to FSL, SSL and so on during the 5 cycles forward? How would i proceed to implement the other assistance?

If you need information about my strength, stats and so on:
height 187 cm (6’2") 94 kg (207 lbs), before the injury 98 kg (216 lbs)

press 5 RM 75 kg (165 lbs)
paused bench 5 RM 107.5 kg (237 lbs)
Squat 5x5 before injury 155 kg (342 lbs)
Deadlift 5 RM before injury 170 kg (375 lbs)

Thank you.

P.S. Enjoyed reading your new article Jim, very well written and made me understand better your new concepts.


#13

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Ditch the dips as they are assistance, not supplemental.
[/quote]

Jim, since when dips are downgraded to an assistance. In the 2nd edition of your 5/3/1 book they are pointed as a second exercise (dips 5x10) in Press day (in triumvirate template, too)? Maybe things change


#14

[quote]Ivan Kiryakov wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Ditch the dips as they are assistance, not supplemental.
[/quote]

Jim, since when dips are downgraded to an assistance. In the 2nd edition of your 5/3/1 book they are pointed as a second exercise (dips 5x10) in Press day (in triumvirate template, too)? Maybe things change[/quote]

Since always - even in the Tri template, they are assistance. Always have been, always will be. You are welcome to use them as you please but they will never be a supplemental movement in the 5/3/1 program.


#15

[quote]ripped_vik wrote:
Hey, thank you for your answers. Jim, what i mean by that is, that i had a cyst in my right tibia that was causing so much pain i could not train for almost 4 months. 3 weeks ago the pain almost vanished, the MRI i got this week shows that it is almost gone.

I use the 5/3 progression and now am currently in the 4th cycle. My plan looked like this for the last cycle since im training lower body again:

Sunday
Press 5’s Pro (supersetted 5x10 v grip chins)
Press5x10 BBB
Fatbar Curl 5x10
Lateral/Rear delt raise 3x10

Monday
Deadlift 5’s Pro
Leg Curl
Bulgarian split squat
Ab wheel

Wednesday
Bench 5’sPro (supersetted with 5x10 chins)
Bench BBB
T-Bar chest supported row 5x10
Facepulls/Pushdowns 100 reps

Thursday or Friday
Squat 5’s Pro
Leg press
45�°Back Raise
Hanging leg raise

I’m using ridiculously low TMs on the Squat (80 kg) and Deadlift (100kg).
The lower body assistance is done for 10 - 20 reps, very low weight too AND on the first workout for 1 set each, next week 2 sets each and so on until i reach 5 sets. Then i would be basically doing Dave Tate’s Periodization Bible from 2nd Edition.

Im getting really good results with this kind of upper body training, should i nonetheless switch to FSL, SSL and so on during the 5 cycles forward? How would i proceed to implement the other assistance?

If you need information about my strength, stats and so on:
height 187 cm (6’2") 94 kg (207 lbs), before the injury 98 kg (216 lbs)

press 5 RM 75 kg (165 lbs)
paused bench 5 RM 107.5 kg (237 lbs)
Squat 5x5 before injury 155 kg (342 lbs)
Deadlift 5 RM before injury 170 kg (375 lbs)

Thank you.

P.S. Enjoyed reading your new article Jim, very well written and made me understand better your new concepts.[/quote]

It’s always 5’s Pro/FSL for 3-6 weeks, then something harder for 3 weeks, MAYBE 6. 100% of people in my gym get stronger doing this. They also work very hard and very smart.

Keep Lower body stuff the same for twice as long as you think is necessary - people fuck up rehab 100% of the time as they have ONE good day (feel good) and then think, “It’s probably a pretty good idea to triple the volume and max out 14 times this week.”


#16

Thank you very much Jim, i will follow your advice, especially concerning the rehab.

One more question - on the cycles that i’ll be doing 5’s PRO & FSL, would you consider it to much to include for example 50 reps of BW Dips after the main and supplemental work, all supersetted with chins, rows and facepulls (main, supplemental, assistance) , or is that reasonable? Thanks.