How Does This PCT Look?

@TRTblastcruise

tren, have sides effect on approximately the whole body.

the positive thing of tren is that it can’t catabolize protein and that it builds new muscles fibers and burns fat

Its an estratian hormone and one time passes via the enzyme 5 alpha reductase - still its high androgenous

We don’t know for certain if it does or does not create prolactin problems so something that “shouldn’t” create prolactine problems is not enough considering that many people on it have had prolactin and lactation issues on it

have a little read

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v23je03.htm

hormones are like grapes

there so many types of wine coming from the same grape but still the method to get it is the same

What?

Side effects are on a case by case basis.

Maybe I’ll read that later, or maybe you could cite something meaningful from it instead of just attaching a very long document about tren in cattle, rats, and mice. What am I supposed to get out of that document? Do you think I don’t know what trenbolone is and have never read about it or used it? Please tell me what you are trying to show me in that document.

Either way with true Tren, I have no issue concerning prolactin whatsoever so I agreed that using a dopamine agonist should really be a last resort, not just something to always take.

@TRTblastcruise

never said anything like that!

I am not here to lecture you but I must presume that you must be one of those genetically gifted people that do not suffer prolactin or lactation issues with tren. Good for you

Regarding the document, in a few words, various scenarios were assessed but there is one part where there is evidence of increased estrogenic secretion of estradiol which as you might know is considered a factor that can increase prolactin.

Dopamine agonists are not candies for sure but an AI or a SERM won’t do much when the tits are coming out and the cause is not test but the addition of Tren. If Caba is too much then maybe pramipexole is a good choice as does not have the cardiac side effects that cabergoline induce at higher dose (at 0.5, 2 times a week for a short period, cardiac side effects like fibrosis are not noted with caba).

Again you must be genetically gifted but there are quite a few people that with tren have this problem and only something like Dostinex, Prami or Bromo will do the job. B6 might do the job too at high dosage but might cause problems as well to certain parts of the brain.

I have seen quite a few posts on Tnation however that include Dostinex in tren cycles or at least they have it at hand.

People who are very sensitive to E2, and progesterone(caba won’t do much for Progesterone) could have problems even at low dosages of Tren. Not everybody but there is a number that do.

That’s all I am trying to say.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]MattHoff102 wrote:
@TRTblastcruise

never said anything like that!

I am not here to lecture you but I must presume that you must be one of those genetically gifted people that do not suffer prolactin or lactation issues with tren. Good for you

Regarding the document, in a few words, various scenarios were assessed but there is one part where there is evidence of increased estrogenic secretion of estradiol which as you might know is considered a factor that can increase prolactin.

Dopamine agonists are not candies for sure but an AI or a SERM won’t do much when the tits are coming out and the cause is not test but the addition of Tren. If Caba is too much then maybe pramipexole is a good choice as does not have the cardiac side effects that cabergoline induce at higher dose (at 0.5, 2 times a week for a short period, cardiac side effects like fibrosis are not noted with caba).

Again you must be genetically gifted but there are quite a few people that with tren have this problem and only something like Dostinex, Prami or Bromo will do the job. B6 might do the job too at high dosage but might cause problems as well to certain parts of the brain.

I have seen quite a few posts on Tnation however that include Dostinex in tren cycles or at least they have it at hand.

People who are very sensitive to E2, and progesterone(caba won’t do much for Progesterone) could have problems even at low dosages of Tren. Not everybody but there is a number that do.

That’s all I am trying to say.

[/quote]
I tend to agree with what you say here, based upon the experience of a good and very knowledgeable friend of mine.

Any time he added tren to a cycle, he got gyno badly. The only thing that sorted it out was pramipexole, ergo there was likely some degree of prolactin involvment.

Despite the standard literature telling us that tren doesn’t effect prolactin, that’s a biy like saying ‘there are no black swans’. Just becuase the tested subjects didn’t have elevated prolactin from tren, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a subset of the population that does.

Hoestly these days, the more I learn about hormones, the more I realise that all bets are off. There will always be undocumented and ‘unreasonable’ (from a science/logic perspective) reactions to hromones - or any drug for that matter.

BBB[/quote]

I was reading a bit and some very acclaimed people were contradicting the argument by saying that the Tren giving these sort of problem could not be 100% pure and mixed with something like NPP but yet without providing any prove of the claims.

To be honest I don’t know but when veterans know the source is reliable or they have made their tren at home from the powder or pellets and have got all the sides like aggression, major strenght increase, insomnia, sweats, then this should indicate that there is a lot of tren in it to say the least.

Then again only laboratory tests can say if a substance is 100% or whatever.

And we all know that science has gone only half way with proving stuff with AAS, espicially with substances like trenbolone on humans.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]MattHoff102 wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]MattHoff102 wrote:
@TRTblastcruise

never said anything like that!

I am not here to lecture you but I must presume that you must be one of those genetically gifted people that do not suffer prolactin or lactation issues with tren. Good for you

Regarding the document, in a few words, various scenarios were assessed but there is one part where there is evidence of increased estrogenic secretion of estradiol which as you might know is considered a factor that can increase prolactin.

Dopamine agonists are not candies for sure but an AI or a SERM won’t do much when the tits are coming out and the cause is not test but the addition of Tren. If Caba is too much then maybe pramipexole is a good choice as does not have the cardiac side effects that cabergoline induce at higher dose (at 0.5, 2 times a week for a short period, cardiac side effects like fibrosis are not noted with caba).

Again you must be genetically gifted but there are quite a few people that with tren have this problem and only something like Dostinex, Prami or Bromo will do the job. B6 might do the job too at high dosage but might cause problems as well to certain parts of the brain.

I have seen quite a few posts on Tnation however that include Dostinex in tren cycles or at least they have it at hand.

People who are very sensitive to E2, and progesterone(caba won’t do much for Progesterone) could have problems even at low dosages of Tren. Not everybody but there is a number that do.

That’s all I am trying to say.

[/quote]
I tend to agree with what you say here, based upon the experience of a good and very knowledgeable friend of mine.

Any time he added tren to a cycle, he got gyno badly. The only thing that sorted it out was pramipexole, ergo there was likely some degree of prolactin involvment.

Despite the standard literature telling us that tren doesn’t effect prolactin, that’s a biy like saying ‘there are no black swans’. Just becuase the tested subjects didn’t have elevated prolactin from tren, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a subset of the population that does.

Hoestly these days, the more I learn about hormones, the more I realise that all bets are off. There will always be undocumented and ‘unreasonable’ (from a science/logic perspective) reactions to hromones - or any drug for that matter.

BBB[/quote]

I was reading a bit and some very acclaimed people were contradicting the argument by saying that the Tren giving these sort of problem could not be 100% pure and mixed with something like NPP but yet without providing any prove of the claims.

To be honest I don’t know but when veterans know the source is reliable or they have made their tren at home from the powder or pellets and have got all the sides like aggression, major strenght increase, insomnia, sweats, then this should indicate that there is a lot of tren in it to say the least.

Then again only laboratory tests can say if a substance is 100% or whatever.

And we all know that science has gone only half way with proving stuff with AAS, espicially with substances like trenbolone on humans.

[/quote]
My friend makes all his own stuff, has done for years and gets his powders tested.

BBB[/quote]

I don’t understand why some people keep on insisting that is not tren.

My opinion is based on my experience with elevated prolactin from a nadrolone/test cycle. Where the nandrolone was at a rather pedestrian dose of 300mg/wk. Low dose of caber took care of the problem rather quickly.

And then not getting any prolactin sides from a tren/dbol cycle. I think* it was around 40-50mg of tren per day.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
My opinion is based on my experience with elevated prolactin from a nadrolone/test cycle. Where the nandrolone was at a rather pedestrian dose of 300mg/wk. Low dose of caber took care of the problem rather quickly.

And then not getting any prolactin sides from a tren/dbol cycle. I think* it was around 40-50mg of tren per day.

[/quote]

And this is the same for me. Had definite problems with deca/test (400/500 per wk) but none with tren/test at (400/400 per wk). However, I am not “inflexible/dogmatic” and will admit that this is only the case for me (and Bonez apparently, and Mr. Roberts, and Mr. Roberts’ trainees/cycle subjects) as it concerns to tren. The whole start of this back and forth was simply stating that dopamine agonists shouldn’t just be “thrown in” on a whim due to the seriousness of their effects.

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
The whole start of this back and forth was simply stating that dopamine agonists shouldn’t just be “thrown in” on a whim due to the seriousness of their effects. [/quote]

exactly

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, sorry guys, I wasn’t implying that you were being inflexible or dogmatic. After all, you both debated the point in an educated, calm manner.

I was referring to the kind of person who just says ‘meh, you must be wrong, because the books/my teacher never told me about this and since I don’t understand the subject well enough, I’m going to negate it or ignore it.’

You can find them in many places (have you been to a UK BBing board? don’t), but fortunately not here, really.

BBB[/quote]

I understand and I do have caber in my cabinet, but really try to avoid using it if at all possible and certainly don’t just take it because others have.

I guess fortunately for me, trenbolone doesn’t cause the issues that others seem to have trouble with, but I may be the exception and not the rule.