T Nation

How does this look?

Hi all- new to Testosterone, and just read Joe DeFranco’s Westside for skiiny bastards and loved it. Much of what he says i like, i would however, like to squat and deadlift in the same week.

Day 1
Squat: work up to set of 3 (10,8,5,3,3,3…)
Goodmornings 4-6x5-8
lat pulldown
straight bar curls

Day 2
Bench: work up to max set of 3
dips 4x6 or 5x5
military press 4x6 or 5x5
delts 3x8

Day 3
Dead: work up to max set of three
Lunges
db rows
chins

Day 4
Bench: lots of reps (what DeFranco said for rep bench day)
skull crushers
shoulder press

With this, im not sure what kind of sets/reps to use for supplementals, any thoughts?

So what does everyone think of this? Ive made lots of gains in the past from benching twice and then dead and squat in the same week. FYI im 17, and training for my senior year of HS football. Bench 225, Squat 335, Dead 350.

Hey, welcome to the forums. My stats are similar to yours and I am around the same age as you. Take a look at the the training logs over at elitefts.com for some ideas. On this forum BM, BW, Snippdawg, and myself all post are logs. I would not squat and deadlift heavy in the same week. You don’t need to actually Squat and Deadlift to increase the squat and deadlift(if that makes sense). For Max effort squat/deadlift days work up to a max triple or single, with any of these exercises: box squat, goodmorning(any variation), pin pulls, goodmorning squat. Make sure you rotate exercises every 1-2 weeks. Stick around the defranco guest forum is coming soon.

Not bad, but my advice would maybe be to dead/squat on the same day, just reduce the volume of each,( i think CW commented on this in this weeks issue) then use goodmornings as your first exercise next lower body day, but go a bit lighter on them. Just a thought.

Also, if you are new to training, your gains could just be because you are new, and as you progress you will have to alter your training protocols, so be carefull of all that heavy lifting, and try to incorporate more posterior chain work instead. Like I said this is just a thought.

Tags

I think it looks pretty good. I think your dead will be fine just doing the squat/gm work. Instead of pulling deads I would say use a pull variation, such as rdl’s, rack pulls, etc.

Thanks for the adive guys, but now im confused. Some say i should heavy squat and dead in the same week and some say i should. How would something like this work?

Heavy Bench on Day 1 (mon)
Heavy Squat on Day 2 (wed)
Light Bench on Day 3 (thurs)
Light Dead on Day 4 (fri)

Then on the next week, i would havy dead on day 2 and light squat on day 4. I was thinking of doing light goodmornings on heavy days. How about that?

Also, what should i do for supplementals? Should i keep it as is or use DeFrancos suggestions? I was thinking of doing what he says for Max bench day, but as for the rest im not sure. How and when should i do goodmornings and lunges. Also, what supps should i move to my 4th day?

When you say light do you mean something repetition or dynamic based?

If it’s repetition than don’t squat and deadlift in the same week (assuming you are going heavy, i.e. approaching failure on each) on different days. If its dynamic
than you could if your only talking about speed pulls on the “light” deadlift day.

If you want to deadlift and squat on the same week, you could try the following for a couple of weeks before it gets stale:

Day 1) Upper Body, Max effort
Day 2) rest
Day 3) Lower body. Squat, after warm-up, do 3-5 sets of lower reps. Then for deadlift the same thing. Then finish off with posterior chain/ab work.
Day 4) rest
Day 5) Upper Body, Repetition or dynamic
based.
Day 6-7) Rest

Its simple but I did something like this for a bit and saw some decent strength gains. One word of caution that I experienced myself: Try to keep the workouts, especially the lower body day, to under One and a half hours, including warm-up, etc. I would fall into the habbit of getting into a good mood and doing tons of sets of squats, then the same for deadlifts, then not be able to do any posterior chain work, then I’d be too dead to have a good repetition workout two days later, so 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps each (maybe even 2-4 reps for deadlift) was what I found to be relatively practical for me, so try with that and obviously experiment for yourself. Oh and I found that deadlifting after squatting worked better.

Just some suggestions, and good luck. Now I am off to the gym myself!!

Tags!

Would i be better of just following DeFranco’s advice to the T? Im in the offseason for football, and i need to work on speed, so using the extra days for that might be beneficial. Also, the first time i read the article i didnt realize i could do something like squat, lunges and goodmornings on the same day. I was worried my legs wouldnt be sore enough? So do you think i would make gains by doing what he says, rotating mostly between squat one week and dead the next?

And if i do follow what he says in the article, what are some good running, sprinting type things i could do to increase my speed and 40 time in particular?

your program will work for around 3 weeks then it will stall…if your doing max triples then you will be inthe 90% range for 3 weeks or more and then on week 4 your cns will be shit…you cant go above 90% for more than 3 weeks on any any exersice…you have to change the movements each week…for bench try floor press, 1-2-3-4 board press, decline, close grip inclines, and dumbell work…for the squat use gm’s, close stance squat variations, and deadlift hybrids…add those into your programs each week chaniging movents every 1-2 weeks and then you will be ok…bm

If you’re training for football then yeah follow more of what he says. Dont switch squat/dead every week though, stay with one for a few weeks (3 or so) then switch.
Also, dont continually do the same type of deadlift (convential) try them off blocks (which I like a lot) sumo style, etc.

As for your speed work, I personally am going to do a sprinting workout one day, probably sets of 50-40 yards and under, changing up the rest intervals (for more info on this read Charlie Francis High Octane Traning Q & A’s in the previous issues section) then the other day i will probably sprint up hills, do tire flips, shuttle running, etc. to bring up my conditioning. (I am going into my second year playing University Linebacker). I’m not very educated on all this, but I hope this helps a little bit.

The only problem i see is that i dont wanna take a 3 week layoff from squats or deads. Is there any way i can do both in the same week, but not on the same day. I like to squat till i cant stand up, and i cant dead after that. So is there any way to modify this routine so i can squat and dead in the same week? (ill change up the types of dead etc)

this is what you need bro…bm

big martin the post looks great, albeit somewhat difficult for me to understand. I must admit now that i am thoroughly confused. I had been doing 5x5, with 3 days, (squat, bench, dead) but my progress has stagnated, but pretty much just in bench. Because of this i would like to add another bench day, and this such as DeFranco’s routine have looked great. I just do not like the fact that i wont be able to squat for a few weeks at a time. My dads been lifting for 20 years and he still heavy squats and heavy deadlifts in the same week. Hes 47 and still squats 550.

Is there any possible way to use much of what Joe DeFranco says, (especially the two bench days) and then be able to also squat and deadlift in the same week but on different days? That routine would be ideal for me, is there any way this can be accomplished?

i squat and deadlift in the same week and bench twice a week very single week…it is all about your work capacity…if you can handle it give it a shot…but watch out how much you go above 90%…if you look at the tier program in that thread you will see the movements pools all have several movements in them tons and otns of variations of squats and deadlifts give them a shot…trust me they will raise your sq and dead far beyond just sq and deadlift alone…bm

thank big martin, thats exactly what i was looking for. A question though. The ME bench day will stay exactly as is, but as for the others i dont know how to spread out excersizes. Like on the Dynamic Bench day there is some back stuff, things i would do when i would deadlift. And on ME leg day, when i would squat there are also lunges and goodmornings. Could u lay out a sample routine, using the excercizes Joe DeFranco suggests, just in a 4 day format?

I really dont want to step on any ones toes…you may want to save your question for defranco when he is here friday…as much as were a like i think me and him take a totaly diffirent apporach in our training set ups…i would definatley save your ideas for friday…bm

alright bm, thanks for the help. Can u just tell me what you do then? The link u gave me before was really confusing ive gotta say, is there a somewhat simpler routine that u think would be good? Dont worry about DeFranco’s ideas at all

If you are going to squat and deadlift in the same week (ex. Quad dom day and Hip Dom day)at least wave your percentages each week, only hitting a max at the end of every cycle or every other cycle.

bigdirk…take a look in this section here at the forum at a post called - “tier training log” by jordan foley…this is how i would set up a program for some one in your position…also if you want to do yourself a huge favor go to www.elitefitnesssystems.com and read everything by coach h, coach x, and 62,…also they sell a book on there called the coaches strength training playbook by joe keen he is the creator of the tier system and in my opionion he is the best of the best when it come to adjusting westside to athletes his ideas are amazing…his book is the bible of strenth training for athletes…but if you look at jordan foleys log here at t-mag you will see how ot set up tiers and the tier he is using is a basic strenth and mass tier for athletes…take a look…bm

boss14, what would u suggest for changing up percentages?

And bm, where do i find these articles? I see the articles section, but i have no idea what they would be listed by